"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

Wonder if London buses actually still get that cheap 'Zuelan oil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6377867.stm

it's probably mainly from that zany bunch of lads the Sauds these days? Crazy guys.

look we give them missiles to blow up school buses, they give us oil, that's how the free market works

remember when they did a sequel to that film and nobody saw it

― imago, Tuesday, February 5, 2019 5:43 AM (fifty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I saw it and wish I hadn't.

further to our collective surprise yesterday that the windrush disaster had somehow been resolved:

Sajid Javid, the home secretary, was accused of “pandering to a far-right racism” by Labour’s David Lammy after he revealed three more people wrongly deported in the Windrush scandal have now died. As the Press Association reports, in an urgent question in the Commons, Javid said after further review 18 people were wrongly sent back to the Caribbean, and he had written to 15 of them to apologise. After Javid said the remaining three were now deceased, Lammy called it “nothing less than a national scandal”. He told Javid:

Every single one of these cases is a shocking indictment of your government’s pandering to a far-right racism, sham immigration targets and the dog-whistle of the right-wing press.

but he voted for the war, so he doesn't have a point

(sorry, couldn't resist)

yes let's litigate that again

it is interesting just how racist and petty this government's deportation policy is. who exactly wants any of this?

racists

re: fizzles post about framing and argument

I have some sympathy for this insidious ABC practice. the difficulty/impossibility of learning how ppl really make up their minds abt politics combined with the gap between what ppl say and do (& mb ppl themselves don't really know why they think what they do) has left a lot of space in which the ideal of the reasoned argument, rational enquiry via debate in the marketplace of ideas etc. has thrived as an exemplar of how politics should be. but I think the role and efficacy of argument tends to be hugely overstated. if you speak to ppl who change ppls minds for a living, or look at intellectual history, or look at anything else in which shifts in thinking and behaviour occur, argument & facts are often not decisive factors. they are most effective within narrow, clearly defined parameters, but as soon as there is controversy or uncertainty about underlying premises and values they start to become less useful.

I think most ppl have an instinctive sense that the "debate me so I can make you look as bad as possible" crowd are fundamentally not otm, and can recognise instances where debates are managed or performed to someone's advantage, or are flooded with Legitimate Concerns so that they become totally dysfunctional, but you can still see a widespread belief/yearning that if only the light of logic were shone brightly enough all the idiots and self-serving bad eggs in politics would be DESTROYED and a new kind, rational and witty era of enlightenment would dawn

I was asking my uncle what he thought about Lammy the other night, as someone who used to live in his ward is a raving old-school lefty, former Communist, gay activist, Irish Industrial schools survivor.. etc.... He called him a standard conservative reactionary git in sheeps clothing, or words to that effect and cited his blaming the lack of severe corporal punishment in schools as a factor in the '12 riots as something that marks him out as a complete twat.

There's a decent interview with him about it here: corporal punishment must have slipped his mind at the time:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/aug/14/david-lammy-tottenham-mark-duggan

..and your point is ?

In fact the schools aspect of it appears to have slipped his mind every time he's mentioned it.

You can actually dislike Labour politicians without being pro-institutionalized racist police violence, y'know?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lammy-lack-of-corporal-punishment-caused-riots-9gh2bdk07t7

shit. cancelled

Ah don't mind me, I'm in a mood, and caping for David Lammy's not the best use of my time I'm aware - though that point I was making is that there's a line between "parents should be able to smack kids" and "teachers should be able to smack kids", and Lammy's not on the same side of that line as your uncle thinks he is.

There's an article here where he says that it's not the cause of the riots, but he does think it's important blah blah - to be clear he's wrong here, but he's not a caner.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/29/labour-mp-backs-smacking-children

ah i see the distinction you were making there now. My uncle used to be a supply maths teacher in the 70's/80's in lots of very deprived sink schools in Tottenham/wider London area and is quite quick to jump on discipline stans, and read it/heard it right at the time.

*might not have*

his approach to classroom discipline was a bit unorthodox, if someone lit up a cig - just carry on. Maybe slightly too far to the other end of the spectrum - but he is an Artane survivor.

I probably need to find a better use of my time than taking potshots at Lammy tbf. it's all imagos fault!

I regularly see Lammy out and talking to locals here in Tottenham, and he's v visibly tackling immigration issues, hostile environment, windrush, brexit, etc. I'm glad he's my MP, tbh, and I daresay there are bigger villains in the H of P but as ever ymmv.

lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/05/karl-marx-london-grave-vandalised-suspected-hammer-attack-highgate-cemetery

That'll show 'em!

Hah, I was in the Haringey Irish Cultural and Community Centre last week - I might've seen your uncle in the pictures on the walls, calzino!

I wouldn't be surprised if he was, he's a bit of an activist ledge in his own modest way - Even the Graun did did a two page piece on him about 10 years back!

I've been reading back this thread v slowly for the last hour and just want to acknowledge my agreement with ogmor's post about the myth of rational debate as a political keystone, a thing that has nagged at me for a long time

Yeah that was fairly booming

Ditto.

Magical.

A joint UK and Ireland bid to host the football World Cup would help strengthen relations across the Irish Sea post-Brexit, Theresa May has said.

The British prime minister described the "tantalising" prospect of hosting the 2030 tournament as she outlined ways to bolster the bilateral relationship with Ireland after the UK leaves the EU.

Diplomatic ties between London and Dublin, which have improved markedly in recent decades, have been put under renewed strain during the Brexit process.

On a visit to Belfast today, Mrs May said people on both islands "yearned" for a "close and trusting" relationship.

The only way I’m supporting this muck is if commentary is done solely by a jarred Dunphy and an increasingly angry Roy Keane.

by that point we’ll only be able to afford the commentary track from PES 5

Er, so if the UK are to host the World Cup that means no more national teams for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I can see she's thought this one through with her usual thoroughness.

Has she ever watched a match in her life? Do you think she knows there are different teams?

roy_of_the_rovers_but_the_ball_is_a_bomb.jpeg

Oh for a Prime Minister with a deep-seated love and understanding of the beautiful game like ah never mind

did brown actually like football?

if not - who was the last with a genuine passion for the game ? anyone ?

Pretty sure none of them were that into it. I'm sure calz can confirm if Wilson was a Huddersfield fan.

Corbyn, on the other hand...

I know fuck all about football but iirc Japan and South Korea joint hosted the world cup so I don't see why the UK couldn't host it and still have separate teams?

Wilson kept a pic of the Hudds triple title winning side of the 20's in his wallet. Which might just have been as big a contrivance as his pipe tbf.

Attlee then trained as a barrister at the Inner Temple and was called to the bar in March 1906. He worked for a time at his father's law firm Druces and Attlee but did not enjoy the work, and had no particular ambition to succeed in the legal profession.[4] He also played football for non-League club Fleet.[5]

I don't see why the UK couldn't host it and still have separate teams?

Because no-one else would agree to the UK having 4 teams automatically qualified for the finals.

Sorry but Brown has been a Raith Rovers stan foreverrrr.

5) Brown signed defender Marvin Andrews for Raith Rovers in a pub car park
This is only implied, but it is implied strongly. Brown apparently had a habit of getting too involved with his local football club when he had spare time in Scotland. A journalist rang McBride saying that Brown had been seen discussing contract terms with Andrews in a Kirkcaldy pub car park in the middle of the night. Brown's reaction was: "Have they got photos?"

Marvin Andrews the one who famously recovered several months quicker than expected from a serious injury and ascribed it to the Almighty

Peter Mandelson?

Because no-one else would agree to the UK having 4 teams automatically qualified for the finals.

It'll either be a 64 team tournament by then or the UK will have...shrunk.

from a strictly imperial perspective i think it wld be really cool to have a 5 nation intra-island wc

David Mellor?

did brown actually like football?

if not - who was the last with a genuine passion for the game ? anyone ?

― ||||||||, Tuesday, February 5, 2019 10:52 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Gordon Brown does actually like football and is a Raith Rovers fan.