"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

the most disingenuous aspect of the coverage of brexit is the pretense that it isn't almost completely about immigration

That includes the coverage on ILX if you back through these threads.

I think a sizeable chunk of the Brexit vote is people who've convinced themselves that it isn't about immigration, tbf. There's some degree of hypothetical difference between nationalism and anti-immigration sentiment, too.

Much of it non-European, to boot.

― pomenitul, Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:29 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah that's my favourite bit. brexit will mean we won't have immigrants coming from the EU countries of the indian subcontinent!

leaving the EU will mean that no Syrians come here!

The 73-year-old former builder and engineer said he had been lied to by the leave campaign. “They didn’t tell us the true facts. They kept us in the dark like mushrooms and fed us bullshit,” he said. “We voted because of immigration and we didn’t realise how poor we would be. It will be terrible but I still want it, because of immigration.”

It’s not about immigration but...

67% Immigration
23% Protest vote over austerity or whatever
10% Other?

The absolute core is a belief that England/Britain/the UK - let's be honest, mostly England - has some kind of manifest destiny.

Got some bad news for that British-Cypriot woman in the article...

hey dumb American here I struggle to keep up and understand what's going on, is there a good place to start?

well you see in 1649 Oliver Cromwell invaded Ireland...

eh it's fine I can go back to acting like I know what I'm talking about hasn't stopped me yet

I think we've all failed to acknowledge that these fine men and women simply favour culture over economics. They would do anything to rescue Cædmon's legacy from civilisational collapse.

Don't ask us, we only live here.

well you see in 1649 Oliver Cromwell invaded Ireland...

Thread needs deems to point out it start 4 centuries before that.

hey dumb American here I struggle to keep up and understand what's going on, is there a good place to start?

tbf there was a brief "happy" period in medieval Ireland where English hegemony waned after the black death wiped out half the population :p

Anyone who would willingly choose poverty over having a few more brown people here deserves to be shipped off to Syria imo.

hasn't Syria been through enough

Some people when faced with actual poverty are often a bit shocked in a sort of : eh? but it's me, I'm not one of those foreigns or scroungers.

tbf there was a brief "happy" period in medieval Ireland where English hegemony waned after the black death wiped out half the population :p

hasn't Syria been through enough

I mean to sort out ISIS, that sort of thing.

the most disingenuous aspect of the coverage of brexit is the pretense that it isn't almost completely about immigration

That includes the coverage on ILX if you back through these threads.

― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Wednesday, 30 January 2019 18:32 (thirty-one minutes ago)

The concept that there was a substantial Lexit component to the referendum result is certainly a myth that some alphabetically terminal posters like to put about.

S Bush is good not bad

how do get NS for free again? Sorry I've asked this before.

hey dumb American here I struggle to keep up and understand what's going on, is there a good place to start?

thanks!

The absolute core is a belief that England/Britain/the UK - let's be honest, mostly England - has some kind of manifest destiny.

This is correct imo. Immigration is bundled up in it but, to fall back on a terrible cliche, the country has never really reckoned properly with the end of Empire.

The concept that there was a substantial Lexit component to the referendum result is certainly a myth that some alphabetically terminal posters like to put about.

No, that wasn't it. Someone was arguing that fears over immigration wasn't that big a factor in the Brexit vote - based, I think, on their experience with Brexit supporters. Brexit rather than Lexit supporters, in case of confusion.

'it is terrible but I still want it' should be the conservative party strapline

channel 4 news reporting that dark money facebook adds are signal boosting 'no deal' in large numbers

how long until it garners 40%+ support

ums my top tips for understanding brexit are:

1. it's not a short term thing so getting an understanding of the history of the EU and the UK's relationship with it is essential for any proper analysis
2. don't just read & listen to ppl in london

I thought we passed that point a fortnight ago. Doesn’t surprise me, all the loony 🇬🇧😂🤣 accounts on twitter with their 80s hair and 70s teeth are pushing this one hard as well.

This is correct imo. Immigration is bundled up in it but, to fall back on a terrible cliche, the country has never really reckoned properly with the end of Empire.

I don't think the country ever reckoned properly with having Empire either. CF that excellent piece way upthread about this weird self-image of WWII winners which handwaves away the fact that Britain went into an economic and military powerhouse, not the plucky underdog.

We used to be like the billionaire pretending all his wealth is down to grit and hard work and bootstrap-pulling, now we're the same billionaire gone broke and muttering darkly to himself about enemies and rejecting all his friends.

went into *it as

if your question is what's going to happen in the next 2 months, i *think* this is the set of possibilities

what’s more likely?

Dublin/EU come round to the idea of changing/ junking the backstop in line with Brady amendment majority of 16 and that also getting ERG backing.

Or 16 Conservative MPs voting for a permanent customs union & EU going for that? (Lab amendment lost by 31)

— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) January 30, 2019

xp
David Edgerton is really good at clearing away all that ww2 propagandistic underdog nonsense/inherent declinism that paints a fake picture of the scale of the BE and its resources in that era.

A lot of what determined our entry into WWII and our subsequent strategy was based on calculations of the best interests of the Empire, yep.

Always cringe when I catch myself typing "our", lol

ums my top tips for understanding brexit are:

1. it's not a short term thing so getting an understanding of the history of the EU and the UK's relationship with it is essential for any proper analysis
2. don't just read & listen to ppl in london

― ogmor, Wednesday, 30 January 2019 19:30 (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

3. Read John Harris articles
4. Make sure you do pay attention to people in London, because it gives you a much greater perspective on one of the central issues used and abused in the referendum: there are 3m+ immigrants in London, with both the highest rate of immigration and highest numbers in the country, and hardly anyone who lives alongside them voted leave; in comparison many constituencies voted Leave without a daily experience of immigrants. That may or may not tell you something.

3. Read John Harris articles

3. Read John Harris articles

not sure if serious

Those people used to live in London then moved to the country on account of all the immigrants iirc.

2xp

The various Brexit-related videos John Harris has done for the Guardian are OK (despite he)

not sure if serious

― ||||||||, Wednesday, 30 January 2019 20:43 (three minutes ago)

I was lampooning ogmor

thank fuck! it's bad enough occasionally hate-reading JH's myopic London-centric smugness on autism/SEN matters, but on fucking Brexit as well ..nooo!

but ogmor is quite often very otm.

He is! His London hate/prejudice is therefore doubly baffling.

As a clueless out of touch Londoner I sometimes find myself wondering if members of the provincial angry white working class have developed some kind of secret early warning system for use when John Harris is spotted chuntering around their town centre while people are just trying to get on with their shopping.

london is bad not good this is canon