"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

Gentlemen you can't bicker in here this is the Brexit thread

Ha ha.

I am going to go and youtube some great Lammy speeches and try and learn to love politicians.

Since it’s been alluded here several times, how do people feel about collective responsibility? Is it a total cop out or what? Suzy correctly said that Lammy was in ministerial roles and thus bound by collective responsibility, but this is also true of all the other leadership contenders in 2015.

londoners happy to log in and bark at each other about their socialist theory bone fides while the irish suffer the consequences

twas ever thus

The only thing I’m suffering from rn is London Irish centre’s siopa having restricted opening hours.

Anyway, Streetinged again!

Afraid not - it’s is still on a one-line whip - which means Labour frontbench have just thrown away the chance to defeat the Government on flagship #ImmigrationBill

An utter shambles and no point trying to deny it. https://t.co/8YLxmDkoh5

— Chris Leslie (@ChrisLeslieMP) January 28, 2019

I find it terrifying that I am having to tweet an explainer about what the whipping terms mean at you but you are mistaken. That is not how it works: https://t.co/pFKIgI7BxI

— Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) January 28, 2019

lol <3

Collective responsibility might be important to the effective functioning of government in the UK's political system but on the other hand it's a shit political system, and tactical abnegation of conscience is one of the reasons why

lol Chris Leslie needs a whipping induction!

Sorry 'jim' and Jim :)

That’s ok.

Labour abstaining on bills of this level of importance (both real and symbolic) for tactical advantage is what propelled Corbyn to his current position, and his version of the party would do well to remember the disgust that episode provoked. The final reading needs to be a three-line whip, voting against.

been reading lots of anger with Labour today from some UK Polish/African immigrants on my twitter and can't fucking blame them tbh.

This is an OK thread on what Labour might be thinking - even if the politics is like this the communication of it has not.

To be clear, the passing of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, if it does pass, does not lead to immediate restriction on FoM as now know it. It give powers to repeal freedoms incorporated into UK law at a later date.

— Paul Cotterill (@Bickerrecord) January 28, 2019

when chris leslie is attacking diane abbott from the left on immigration something's gone wrong

NEW: Here is the new Nicky Morgan plan endorsed by Jacob Rees-Mogg and Steve Baker as well as Tory Remainers including Stephen Hammond and Robert Buckland. New backstop plus extension of transition period, or a no-deal ‘triple safety net’ pic.twitter.com/JZygHpV5aM

— Alex Wickham (@alexwickham) January 28, 2019

Anyone ever see the Star Trek episode, "The Alternative Factor"? That's what the endless xyzzzz__ vs. imago spat reminds me of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-dK9996Ks4

What the fuck is this gibberish
― stet, Tuesday, 29 January 2019 10:47 AM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Three more years of bickering, up from two.

everyone itt just trying to score imago points

should set up some kind of Patreon-esque tier system. LBI, you have chosen the Gold Package and your box of kudos is currently en route

Duncan Smith said: “It combines the two things: one, we will leave on the 29th whatever – but it also ensures that those who are worried about things like cliff edges that that departure will be a managed process.”

Fall the first quarter of the way down the cliff in March, the remainder to follow in December. It sounds like the main difference between this and the Brady proposal is one would demand May requests the impossible within six weeks and the other demands she do it by December 2021.

seems they've learnt the EU method of handling things: kick the can down the road until something turns up

id be interested to hear any specifics on what would apply in the event of no agreement beyond the proposed delay period. they seem to have something more than "the backstop ends on date x" which if this was in any way treatable as a good faith arrangement (nb obv not) would be interesting as an indication of which red lines are shifting

saw my first ever Leave Means Leave car sticker yesterday on a pensioners 4x4 type pollution-maker. I feel like these old tory numpts wanting wanting clarity and certainty are going to be very disappointed for a good while yet.

seems they've learnt the EU method of handling things: kick the can down the road until something turns up

the "s" in Neil S stands for sarcasm I think!

Ah, my mistake. How many points is that?

saw my first ever Leave Means Leave car sticker yesterday on a pensioners 4x4 type pollution-maker.

I was in London a few weeks ago and saw a woman with a hessian bag with the blue and yellow EU flag on it. I though it was going to be one of those "Love the EU" flags but when i got close up it said "Brexit means Exit" one one side and something like "take back control" on the other, all in blue and yellow. very strange

it might have been made by those dodgy printing operations that make unlicensed football merchandise to sell on match-days. Or do they still exist in London? When I lived in London in the 90's my partner briefly worked for one in Stepney Green somewhere.

They exist seemingly everywhere in London and obviously also on the internet. Probably considered something of a sideline since the half-and-half-scarf machine became a thing.

I want to get a Leave Means Leave/I demand A People's Vote half-and-half-scarf just for lols.

seems they've learnt the EU method of handling things: kick the can down the road until something turns up

This is an exceptionally strange take on the EU in these talks.
― gyac, Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:48 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the "s" in Neil S stands for sarcasm I think!

― calzino, Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:49 AM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark

I actually sort of meant this! The EU has in other situations (Greek debt crisis, Irish and Dutch "no" votes on the Constitution for Europe, the migration crisis etc. etc.) adopted exactly this approach. What has been notable this time is the EU's ability to act in a concerted way when there is an issue on which member states have unanimity, i.e. getting rid of the troublesome Brits ASAP while adhering to a series of red lines.

sorry about the presumption, but you tend to be a sarcy bugger!

no worries!

I should say that Greece perhaps doesn't fit so well into that pattern- once the Troika had decided that Greece must not be allowed to crash out of the Eurozone but also couldn't be allowed to default, that decision was applied with some alacrity. The delay was perhaps in letting the situation develop as it did, something that might also be happening at a larger scale and with more serious consequences with Italy (without wishing to downplay the impoverishment of Greece, of course).

Sorry but the second Lisbon vote was the exact opposite of that; it passed because Ireland and the EU addressed some of the concerns the electorate had, specifically about neutrality.

They do have a record of making deals at the very last minute, which is not the same as kicking the can down the road.

... or maybe that was just when the UK was involved.

xp okay I stand corrected! I would maintain that a tactic of the EU, insofar as it has tactics, is to put off problems until they can be put off no more.

I would maintain that a tactic of the EU, insofar as it has tactics, is to put off problems until they can be put off no more.

it me

xp more so than the UK? I’m not sure it’s relevant to this at all esp as you say they’ve basically all held the line.

in this case the UK is kicking the can, that's what makes the contrast interesting IMO- the lesson for the UK has been that the EU is able to act with unanimity and force when presented with an issue on which it can take a common position, despite British efforts to undermine that solidarity.

Anyway yes this is a tangent, sorry!

God, just fuck off already Tony!

Politicians should be ready to “stand up” to members of the public who brand them elitist because they argue for a second Brexit referendum, Tony Blair has said. Speaking at the launch of the annual Edelman Trust Barometer in London, he said people should listen to what MPs say about Brexit because MPs were likely to be better informed.

As the Press Association reports, Blair recalled an encounter with a member of the public in which he tried to explain details of the working of the EU’s single market and customs union which made him oppose Brexit, only to receive the reply: “You’re just trying to say to me that you know far more about this than I do.” Blair went on:

I was prime minister for 10 years.

I want to say to people, I follow Newcastle United, if a game is on the TV I will watch it, but I know that Rafa Benitez has forgotten more about football in one day than I will ever know.

It’s not because he is smarter than me - though he probably is smarter than me - it’s because that’s what he spends his life doing.

You send people to parliament and that’s their day job. It’s not your day job. So if they study the detail and say this is a bad idea, they are not squabbling children, they are doing what you sent them to parliament to do.

If you explain that to people they regard this as the elite fighting back. It’s absurd. We have got to have politicians who stand up and say ‘No, that is not a sensible way of looking at this’.

This is an argument contains an obvious truth, but it is not something MPs say in public these days - and even Blair would have thought twice about putting it in these terms when he was in the Commons himself. In the 19030s the Labour politician Douglas Jay famously wrote: “The gentleman in Whitehall really does know better what is good for people than the people know themselves.” But this quote became a byword for establishment hubris and ever since MPs have been extremely nervous about ever saying they are better informed than their voters.

love it when war criminals break out the patronising football metaphors

I want to say to people, I follow Newcastle United, if a game is on the TV I will watch it,

... otherwise I don't give a flying fuck.

Blair always wants to say, wants to say to people.

But how does he feel about Genesis?

look, he is passionate about cadcading

yknow, mb its the winter vibe but I think I'll just leave that touchscreen-aborted post to fester in this thread without explanation

hes not wrong in this particular instance but