Michael Jackson is "evil"

Meanwhile when I listen to Jones' big band arrangements, they sound like too-slick finger-popping wallpaper music for coffee commercials.

― grawlix (unperson), Monday, January 28, 2019 2:26 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Some of his small-group arrangements are ok, but when an orchestra or big band gets involved, the results are usually unimaginative at best, and frequently dull. And some of his '50s arrangements -- particularly something like Art Farmer's Last Night When We Were Young -- are instantly-dated slushy harp-fests.

re MJ - without in any way wishing to condone or minimise the atrocity of his actions, it is so painfully clear that this is what must have happened to him as a boy.

one thing that is interesting is how people reluctant to give Michael his due (often for very meritorious reasons) are quick to credit quincy jones w/ the sleek power of his best records. but for all QJ's talents, if you look at what he was working on in the late 1970s and through the 1980s, pretty much none of it is anywhere near as memorable as his work w/ MJ. a late period Lena Horne record? Patti Austin? some of the more mediocre Rufus and Donna Summer LPs? the only classic among QJ's productions of that era, other than MJ, is George Benson's "Give Me the Night" (single, not full LP). so whatever MJ brought to the table and/or brought out in QJ is immense. it doesn't hurt that they probably had songwriters lining up to place their best songs w/ MJ.

I still marvel at the fact that "The Girl is Mine" not only made Thriller but was the first single off it

thanks for stanning for Donna Summer and Brothers Johnson.

Jones' "Summer in the city" is amazing of course

thanks for stanning for /Donna Summer/ and Brothers Johnson.

:)

i was too hasty in my dismissal of some of those other albums. i still don't think they measure up to the MJ stuff, esp. in their songwriting.

btw i am trying to make some sort of pun inverting the whole shangri-las "he's good-bad, but he's not evil" to say something like "michael jackson's not bad, he's evil," with reference to his hit record bad (get it??) but i just can't seem to form it correctly. any assistance is much appreciated, thanks in advance.

xp Right on Time rules

I think this broader conversation to some extent exposes how much of the r Kelly convo was enabled by the fact that in some circles he was *never* taken seriously whereas mj was universally so, and we will see ppl flip. Ie Questlove is apparently an MJ truther?

I think a lot of the convos I’d hear about mj’s strange appearance were that he was like a more extreme version of a baseball player risking his health using steroids: the world’s most competitive, driven musician doing everything he could to become the most popular artist in the world—in a world that’s fundamentally anti black. He was driven to the point of self mutilation.

Except wasn't Michael the most popular, successful artist *before* he did all that?

Not really, the transformation work between his first solo record and his second pales compared to what subsequently happened but people were shocked at the time of the Mowtown 25 gig not just by Billie Jean and the moonwalk but by the radical transformation in MJs appearance.

I dunno, I just did some googling and he generally looks the same to me up to 1983 or so. The big changes came after the Pepsi fire.

https://spinditty.com/artists-bands/The-Changing-Face-of-Michael-Jackson

He had some work on his nose it seems before 85 but nothing that fundamentally changed his appearance. Around 87 he starts to look like a different person.

nose job plus losing the afro was a pretty big shift

Losing the afro is a change of hairstyle. Everyone does that. If you look at his face he is obviously still the guy on the cover of off the wall. By the late 80s the whole gestalt is different

By 93 there is like no trace of him left. That’s when plastic surgery gets eerie

the point is that people were shocked at the time. the differences seem minimal in hindsight, obviously, jesus.

I remember seeing the Bad album cover and being like wuuuut is going on here

He tried to throw people off the scent by dressing in military couture, but for some reason that only attracted *more* attention.

the transformation work between his first solo record and his second

(Off The Wall was his fifth solo LP! though the previous two weren’t hits, he’d had a #1 single off the second, top tens off the first, and Motown cranked out a best-of just months after the second, padded with Jackson 5 material.)

Jermaine this morning on U.K. tv;

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/jermaine-jackson-leaving-neverland-michael-children-allegations-good-morning-britain-a8753851.html

xxp I remember a good thread somewhere about the Jacksons' use of fascist imagery, cannot find it anywhere though

treesh i lived through it! his look on thriller caused waves! it's true that at that point it wasn't seen as pathological

But he doesn't look that different on the Thriller jacket! His hair, yes, but that's about it!

*throws hands in air*

*segues into thriller dance*

I think a lot of the convos I’d hear about mj’s strange appearance were that he was like a more extreme version of a baseball player risking his health using steroids: the world’s most competitive, driven musician doing everything he could to become the most popular artist in the world—in a world that’s fundamentally anti black. He was driven to the point of self mutilation.

yea I remember hearing that he'd heard something about Rolling Stone not featuring a lot of black artists b/c they sold less magazines, and concluded he couldn't be the biggest in the world as a black man. makes a lot of sense, especially considering his "100 million" sales goal for Bad which is pretty lol in retrospect

His hair, yes, but that's about it!

If you don’t count his nose and his chin, sure.

and his cheeks

jfc the pics from '85-'95. I forgot about that weird ass chin implant

can't wait to see one of these on Elon Musk in about 10 years

"dating grimes was elon musk's thriller" would be a good display name

iirc the weirdest thing about his look circa thriller was that wrist thing

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/michael-jackson-bone-protruding-thriller-album-fold-out.jpg

what the fuck

i’ve never noticed that before
what is it?

i can't explain the wrist, but it's from the inside foldout image on the thriller lp

lol first I thought you were talking about the tiger.

Anyway, those are his web shooters iirc.

There's the matter of makeup, lighting, photography, etc., but if you look at his face on the cover of Thriller (the album) and Thriller (the song), yeah, he's starting to look different. But I still think it's not radical until a few years later.

Just looks like he has a firm grip on the tiger trying to keep it in place.

specially devised tubes for sucking out the baby tiger's life essence iirc

this historical debate over his shifting looks is a little odd - his look for Thriller was definitely shocking at the time, there were playground jokes about his nosejob/skin lightening among my world of young ppl. What came after is beside the point, ppl had no idea how weird he was going to get.

yea I mean as someone whose first memory of Michael Jackson was the "Black or White" video it was really stunning to see what he *used* to look like

My band is finally finishing our magnum opus of New Orleans brass band versions of MJ songs, which we've been slowly working on for like...7 years. Cool timing. :/

yikes bad timing

jordan :(

let's not forget mj's amazing dancing skills
he put them to some pretty weird use over the years but his natural skill was undeniable
i remember the abundant crotch-grabbing being scandalous at the time

yea when I saw This Is It I was pretty amazed, he definitely did not move like a 50 year old man. for all the strangeness with his face he actually looked kinda decent those last couple years (I mean, comparatively).

his impact on dance styles is pretty undeniable, he's a key figure in that period where things became stiffer and more robotic (obviously he cribbed a lot from hip hop dance crews in this respect). the moonwalk is p much it's own unprecedented thing, obviously.

like this whole thing where you have a gang of backup dancers all doing these super-stiff synchronized robotic movements, that just became standard. personally I find it really boring to watch 40 years on when every pop act does it but whatever, I guess other people found musicians making music too boring too look at after awhile.

I think this broader conversation to some extent exposes how much of the r Kelly convo was enabled by the fact that in some circles he was *never* taken seriously whereas mj was universally so, and we will see ppl flip.

this seems OTM. there have been far fewer calls for "cancelling" MJ so far which feels like a double standard to me.

the moonwalk is p much it's own unprecedented thing, obviously.

even MJ acknowledged that the moonwalk was an extension/revision of one of James Brown's dance moves (which itself JB had no particular copyright on)

nothing is ever completely new!