"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

Fuck this dumb shit. Fuck xyzzz trolling LJ. And fuck writing off Lammy's words in 2019 about Brexit, writing him off as a whole, because of how he voted on the Iraq invasion in 2003. Fuck equaling holding the same disposition on anything with being on the good side morally. Changing your mind is ok. Having made mistakes is ok. The gall to even write off Lammy for 2003 is just.. I have no words. It's enraging.

I was an adamant opposer of any "intervention" in Iraq in 2003. I took my frustration about it to the streets, and it was the last time I joined a protest iirc. Fast forward to 2014: I met and fell in love with and engaged in a relationship with a Kurdish woman. Prime leftist, she was. She was appalled to learn I was out on streets opposing the West entering Iraq. The west toppling Saddam saved many of her cousins and nieces - most uncles and aunts had already been killed by the Saddam regime; her mother, too. It was the biggest blessing her family, her people, could have ever wished for. This was so out of my realm it took days for me to fully take this on board. But I took in board. West vs Iraq FITE wasn't as black and white as we like to pretend over here.

And regardless of your view on the intervention of the west, it's still fucked up to discard Lammy *on Brexit* pointing to how he voted on the Iraq intervention. Unless you are the most perfect human being that has ever lived. Lemme know if u R xyzzz, but I doubt you are baby jesus.

she's going to bring this back as plan c again isn't she

He is, because he espouses the most perfect of ideologies. It all flows from there.

xp

Labour abstaining on the immigration bill, is it?

voting against

(on second reading)

yep

Hearing from my sources (god, I’ve always wanted to say that) Labour are whipping to vote down the Immigration Bill. This is fantastic news!

— Ash Sarkar (@AyoCaesar) January 28, 2019

I should fucking hope so!

the plan had been to abstain on second reading but they u turned

this was diane abbott a mere couple of hours ago:

"The Labour Party is clear that when Britain leaves the single market, freedom of movement ends...on that basis, the frontbench of the Labour Party will not be opposing this Bill this evening."

Watching the FA Cup draw on The One Show but beforehand they had a report talking to a police chief in Durham enthusing about austerity
because he could fire all the struggling demotivated people and hire replacements on lower salaries. Both he and the presenter seemed terribly pleased about it.

I read Diane Abbott’s morning star article about the bill and it was a pretty robust critique of it, as was the briefing paper Adonis linked so idk what’s going on?

Some clarity on this from Chris Leslie:

Why have Labour frontbench just dropped a three line whip down to one line whip against tonight’s Immigration Bill 2nd reading?

This Govt Bill ends free movement, fails to secure U.K./EU citizens rights & delegates future immigration rules to Ministers. Surely needs opposing?!

— Chris Leslie (@ChrisLeslieMP) January 28, 2019

Single line whip = MPs don’t have to attend or even vote, which I guess is effectively abstaining. Why it was downgraded, no idea, maybe to keep Leave MPs onside in advance of tomorrow’s votes? Regardless, it would have been a disgrace to abstain.

Twitter clearly runs the Labour party

I bet Chris Leslie has a great record of protecting immigrants rights.

It’s not bad actually. But of course, the hard left famously can not tolerate any dissent...

that is the nature of the hard left

I can't tolerate someone who think's Which magazine readers are the platonic ideal of a Labour voter!

I’m afraaaaaid that is the nature of the hard left xp

And Jim if you cared to look at the posts instead of trying to score points - I haven't got problems with Lammy on Brexit, but I do with LJ's dumb posts when we were talking about him, which is what I (and others) were addressing. I don't give a shit about who you went out with back then.

jim

it was me that had 'problems' w lammy on brexit - except I didn't. I thought his speech was good and didn't disagree w much in it but still think a second referendum would be a massive folly

listen not every opinion you don't like on this thread is by me

Thanks for clearing that up xyzzz!

Love,
'Jim'

"instead of trying to score points"

Come now

Gentlemen you can't bicker in here this is the Brexit thread

Ha ha.

I am going to go and youtube some great Lammy speeches and try and learn to love politicians.

Since it’s been alluded here several times, how do people feel about collective responsibility? Is it a total cop out or what? Suzy correctly said that Lammy was in ministerial roles and thus bound by collective responsibility, but this is also true of all the other leadership contenders in 2015.

londoners happy to log in and bark at each other about their socialist theory bone fides while the irish suffer the consequences

twas ever thus

The only thing I’m suffering from rn is London Irish centre’s siopa having restricted opening hours.

Anyway, Streetinged again!

Afraid not - it’s is still on a one-line whip - which means Labour frontbench have just thrown away the chance to defeat the Government on flagship #ImmigrationBill

An utter shambles and no point trying to deny it. https://t.co/8YLxmDkoh5

— Chris Leslie (@ChrisLeslieMP) January 28, 2019

I find it terrifying that I am having to tweet an explainer about what the whipping terms mean at you but you are mistaken. That is not how it works: https://t.co/pFKIgI7BxI

— Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) January 28, 2019

lol <3

Collective responsibility might be important to the effective functioning of government in the UK's political system but on the other hand it's a shit political system, and tactical abnegation of conscience is one of the reasons why

lol Chris Leslie needs a whipping induction!

Sorry 'jim' and Jim :)

That’s ok.

Labour abstaining on bills of this level of importance (both real and symbolic) for tactical advantage is what propelled Corbyn to his current position, and his version of the party would do well to remember the disgust that episode provoked. The final reading needs to be a three-line whip, voting against.

been reading lots of anger with Labour today from some UK Polish/African immigrants on my twitter and can't fucking blame them tbh.

This is an OK thread on what Labour might be thinking - even if the politics is like this the communication of it has not.

To be clear, the passing of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, if it does pass, does not lead to immediate restriction on FoM as now know it. It give powers to repeal freedoms incorporated into UK law at a later date.

— Paul Cotterill (@Bickerrecord) January 28, 2019

when chris leslie is attacking diane abbott from the left on immigration something's gone wrong

NEW: Here is the new Nicky Morgan plan endorsed by Jacob Rees-Mogg and Steve Baker as well as Tory Remainers including Stephen Hammond and Robert Buckland. New backstop plus extension of transition period, or a no-deal ‘triple safety net’ pic.twitter.com/JZygHpV5aM

— Alex Wickham (@alexwickham) January 28, 2019

Anyone ever see the Star Trek episode, "The Alternative Factor"? That's what the endless xyzzzz__ vs. imago spat reminds me of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-dK9996Ks4

What the fuck is this gibberish
― stet, Tuesday, 29 January 2019 10:47 AM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Three more years of bickering, up from two.

everyone itt just trying to score imago points

should set up some kind of Patreon-esque tier system. LBI, you have chosen the Gold Package and your box of kudos is currently en route

Duncan Smith said: “It combines the two things: one, we will leave on the 29th whatever – but it also ensures that those who are worried about things like cliff edges that that departure will be a managed process.”

Fall the first quarter of the way down the cliff in March, the remainder to follow in December. It sounds like the main difference between this and the Brady proposal is one would demand May requests the impossible within six weeks and the other demands she do it by December 2021.

seems they've learnt the EU method of handling things: kick the can down the road until something turns up

id be interested to hear any specifics on what would apply in the event of no agreement beyond the proposed delay period. they seem to have something more than "the backstop ends on date x" which if this was in any way treatable as a good faith arrangement (nb obv not) would be interesting as an indication of which red lines are shifting

saw my first ever Leave Means Leave car sticker yesterday on a pensioners 4x4 type pollution-maker. I feel like these old tory numpts wanting wanting clarity and certainty are going to be very disappointed for a good while yet.

seems they've learnt the EU method of handling things: kick the can down the road until something turns up

the "s" in Neil S stands for sarcasm I think!