"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

idk if it’s a generational thing but young online hard-leftists seem to gravitate much more towards defending China and, sometimes, the DPRK than Russia now.

Both more nominally still communist, I guess.

other things young online hard-leftists love: Cuba, IRA, Venezuela and Bolivia. I don't see enough love for Vietnam and Laos :-(

I was once queuing for hari krishna food outside SOAS and there were people distributing a communist newspaper with the headline "CHINA IS NOT A CAPITALIST COUNTRY" and had to suppress the urge to lecture them about "listen lads, I've lived there for a while and let me tell you it's easily the most capitalist country I've ever been to, really"

Their social credit system is probably the future of western capitalism.

I've spent some time in Vietnam and know some Vietnamese and what they tell me is it's corrupt from top to bottom. To get an internet connection you have to bribe someone, to get treated at a hospital you have to bribe the receptionist to see a nurse, you have to bribe the nurse to see the resident, you have to bribe the resident to see the specialist, etc etc. It's way more Hobbesian world than anything in the West. All the money is made by communist party cronies who are given govt contracts at ridiculously low prices and immediately sell them on at the market rate. When I was in Ho Chi Minh City I stayed near this car dealership that had like 30 Rollses in a display that would have been outrageously ostentatious in London or Paris. Vietnam is definitely no socialist paradise

idk if it’s a generational thing but young online hard-leftists seem to gravitate much more towards defending China and, sometimes, the DPRK than Russia now.

Thank fuck I don't know any of these people.

lol, I wouldn't know where to start if trying mount a defence of the DPRK. They look very happy + well fed in them workout videos I guess and there are plenty of corrupt politicians I'd like to see acquainted with an anti-aircraft gun.

Calzino I am going out now but I will try and remember to acquaint you with a twitter account or two sometime ;-)

re: Skripal this is the graph I was shown that is meant to show the impact.

Sorry getting xposted madly here. 1) the strategy bit, 2) right, but the danger is "go into election supporting Leave", which is v. difficult to see happening, 3) apols for iPhone editing, but see attached. They have never recovered from the hit they took there. pic.twitter.com/9jBNaO5cUX

— Allan Donald (@bonaldi) January 6, 2019

this looong article by marxist group Chuang on industrial-capitalist structures and the way it contains worker discontent and rioting is excellent i think and should scotch any sense of China somehow being a worker’s utopia.

and meant to post yesterday but i was drunk and it got a bit ranty but...

good points by xyzzzz__ about corbyn’s international socialism credentials. his speech in switzerland just over a year ago still looks statesmanlike in a way his critics don’t often allow in this regard.

does look like they took a hit from skripal from that graphic but overall trend in polling is downwards which is what you would expect during period of non-purdah coverage

Why does ILX hate David Lammy again?

trying to undermine the will of the people iirc

does look like they took a hit from skripal from that graphic but overall trend in polling is downwards which is what you would expect during period of non-purdah coverage

I think it's coincidence tbh.

Why does ILX hate David Lammy again?

His woeful performance on Celebrity Mastermind.

Lammy one of a tiny handful of politicians to emphasise how the public architects of Brexit are making a mint off it. That kind of talk wins you imago points

Just a pity he didn't make any of his famously emotive speeches when we were fixing to reduce Iraq to rubble.

Is that his major negative - voting for the war? I'd almost say that's forgivable now. Or at least...negotiable

Um

Has he apologised?

Do you realise how many people died because of the Iraq war?

Yeah, millions.

This adds to my point that we need a new generation of politicians untainted by any of the shit of their forebears

one of the funnier things on here is when supporters of the Iraq war get frustrated that ppl keep citing that as a reason to not take their new opinions seriously. they get so mad! which is funny bc it’s actually very sweet of us to not throw every single one of them in a volcano

— KT Nelson (@KrangTNelson) January 23, 2019

Lammy is MP next door to me and I've got a lot of time for him. He has been a tedious centrist on certain issues (cf foreign intervention), and has not always been supportive of our leader, but -
that recent speech in the withdrawal agreement debate was fire, and hit one of the most important issues which Lexiters don't like to look in the face - that Labour voters who voted Leave were lied to, acted on fraudulent information/advice, and it's absolutely right to make that clear. Lammy's alright in my book.

Yeah, millions.

This adds to my point that we need a new generation of politicians untainted by any of the shit of their forebears

― imago, Sunday, 27 January 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Imagine thinking this crap and going about your daily business.

What's your point?

Imagine being some pretentious abrasive arsehole (glasshouses and stones I know) whose idea of ideological purity is rooted in misanthropic smugness?

I am only an arsehole to you and maybe Fred sometimes. All with good causes.

people who voted remain were lied to as well

So how can you say I am being an arsehole now if you can't even tell what my point is? So rude! xp

voting for the war? I'd almost say that's forgivable now. Or at least...negotiable

I can take or leave this Lammy fellow but the above action is neither negotiable or forgivable it is accessory to mass murder

Lammy's one of my 77 favourite MP who voted for the wars. Top half maybe. But enough spoilers, I'll roll out the full results later this year.

I mean - leave voters were lied to or not in full possession of the facts in 2016, not denying it, but it's not a novelty or a reason to declare the vote illegitimate. there may be a secondary qn on whether the ref was unduly influenced by dodgy money or facebook propaganda but that sounds like spilt milk to me. there was hardly industrial scale ballot-stuffing/voter suppression. not to mention this is p.patronising towards leave voters who need to be won over

Never said it was a reason to declare the vote illegitimate. Neither did Lammy, I believe.

Not patronising - you may as well say that telling working conservative class voters why the Tories have lied to them, why they haven't got any richer, or why their ideas about imigrants affecting the economy, are patronising. The EU referendum was not a magical moment where false consciousness* suddenly disappeared.

*which I happen to essentially believe in

edit: "affecting the economy... are incorrect"

xps I know what your point is. It's that Corbyn is more than adequate for the job and he's made no major errors, and that I'm coming off like one of those ghastly FBPE types. All fair perhaps, but I can only go by what I've seen, and Lammy is saying all the right things right now. I hadn't been aware of his voting for the war - which is a terrible stain upon him - but you'd have hoped he'd sufficiently atoned to the extent where we listen to him on other issues? Perhaps there's no atoning. When I said 'negotiate' I didn't mean we let him off the hook entirely, just...we understand that he did that, and...ugh

I think Lammy, unlike some, has largely stayed on the right side of not patronising Leave voters

I welcome any Labour MP who wants to support Corbyn and the current front bench.

Well exactly. It's not like he's on Team Cooper

I don't have too much of a problem with Lammy, but I think he tends to be overrated, he's good for the occasional barnstorming tubthumper of a speech but I don't see too much going on behind it. I'm sure he's a good constituency MP. Also Celebrity Mastermind.

there is no reason to declare the vote legitimate nor illegitimate

people are lied to and/or not in full possession of the facts on 100% of issues 100% of the time

there is however also no reason to treat the vote as in any way binding on any one course of action

There has to come a point where a result is cancelled if it’s shown to be affected by campaign law violations. Plus lots of jail time, rather than allowing already wealthy people to just buy their way out of trouble, or price it in to the cost of doing business.

I don't really see how not being around at the time of the Iraq war vote is any test of one's moral integrity. There are {people who voted against the war} and {everyone else}..

Consistently voted for the Iraq war Show votes
5 votes for, 0 votes against, 1 absence, between 2002–2003
Consistently voted against investigations into the Iraq war Show votes
1 vote for, 11 votes against, 3 absences, between 2006–2016

I don't hate him, but this is not a politician I can pretend to like.

but tbf I can't stand most of 'em if I'm honest.

xps I know what your point is. It's that Corbyn is more than adequate for the job and he's made no major errors, and that I'm coming off like one of those ghastly FBPE types. All fair perhaps, but I can only go by what I've seen, and Lammy is saying all the right things right now. I hadn't been aware of his voting for the war - which is a terrible stain upon him - but you'd have hoped he'd sufficiently atoned to the extent where we listen to him on other issues? Perhaps there's no atoning. When I said 'negotiate' I didn't mean we let him off the hook entirely, just...we understand that he did that, and...ugh

I think Lammy, unlike some, has largely stayed on the right side of not patronising Leave voters

― imago, Sunday, 27 January 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wrong. When it was put to you that Lammy was pro-war your reaction was to not give a shit about hundreds of thousands of dead Iraquis. lol @ 'ugh'. Pedalling back after you've been called on it isn't fooling anyone.

Lammy is fine until he votes through another war after a period examing his conscience.

I might be a bit of too much of a space-cadet/peacenik for my own good, but can't help feeling the world might be a slightly better place with less hawkish politicians (with their heavy burden of conscience of course).

heavy burden of conscience is too much like "imago points" for my liking.

have ye got it sorted yet folks