2020 Democratic presidential primary

he didn't even do that though

that was such a goofy narrative. he endorsed hillary. he was never equivocal about the threat trump posed. it's just a story that he promoted disharmony.

his social media followers were bad bc social media is bad.

goofyunbelievably stupid

Plus at least some portion of those were foreign trolls in the first place.xp

also in the end most of the bernie people came out for hillary.

i would even argue--without evidence, just speculatively, the way we do it--that he helped hillary. i don't think she would have been a stronger candidate if she came to the general without having faced a real primary challenger. she would have seemed like even more of an "annointed" candidate and people would have been even more frustrated about the whole thing.

^ all of these things are true. He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before. And yes, most of those who voted for him in the primaries voted for Hillary in the general. However, there's a reason we endlessly wrestle over 2016 and, while he might not be the reason, he's central to the topic of discussion. If you can nail down the reason, I'll bake you cookies.

He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before.

Amazing.

He actively ran against her long after she was the winner. That's indeed a problem.

Yeah, I like the idea that primary candidates should endorse their opponents before they even become the nominee.xp

GODDAMMIT MILO YOU SUCKERED ME INTO AN EXCHANGE. I'M NOT DOING THIS SHIT ANYMORE.

However, there's a reason we endlessly wrestle over 2016 and, while he might not be the reason, he's central to the topic of discussion. If you can nail down the reason, I'll bake you cookies.

because the general election resulted in a morally disgusting outcome

so the contentious--but necessary--debates of the dem primaries are now seen in the light of the horrible catastrophe that was the end result of the whole process

afaict nothing Bernie or his supporters did or didn't do caused Hillary to lose the general election, so on this we agree. All the fighting about how the primaries went down is counterproductive and rife with unwinnable arguments.

but the primaries were productive because they brought to light a lot of issues that were marginal before in democratic party politics

Also true, and for that we all benefited.

I’m going to dunk all of you into the Potomac if you keep it up

please do, me first

He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before.

Hang on, wait. I know this was sort of dealt with upthread, but are you saying he should have supported Hillary before she became nominee? As is, saying something like "If i lose the nomination I will of course endorse Hillary going forward"? Thats the only way I could see how that makes any sense

i think he said that?

saying something like "If i lose the nomination I will of course endorse Hillary going forward"?

If you can direct me to something like this ever happening, I'd be grateful, because I don't remember it. Even though he never at any time had an advantage over her in pledged delegates, it was his right to keep trying to win all the way to the convention. He did so with hostility instead of humility, though.

i don't think more humility would have helped anyone. it also would have been disingenuous because she had extremely different beliefs than him.

So why do we still fret about 2016 then?

He's welcome to run again. I don't think he'll be the nominee, and I don't think it'll even be close this time, so people are just throwing their donations down a hole, but if he holds everyone else to a more progressive line then purpose fulfilled I guess.

people fret about his 2016 campaign because he is a scapegoat

Real talk, I think Clinton supporters (myself included) are just angry because her campaign was deep six'ed from all directions, including from the candidate herself, but she still won the popular vote overwhelmingly and lost the presidency because of the dumb as fuck electoral college and they/we are still super bitter. Sorry about that.

At the same time, I've over a) white dudes, b) candidates at or past civilian retirement age, and c) cults of personality. Give me someone with a good platform who's a hard worker and I don't care how boring he or she is.

elizabeth warren

so over white duuuuuuuuudessssssss

At the same time, I've over a) white dudes, b) candidates at or past civilian retirement age, and c) cults of personality. Give me someone with a good platform who's a hard worker and I don't care how boring he or she is.

― Johnny Fever, Saturday, January 26, 2019 5:45 PM (fourteen seconds ago)

yes, not sure it's fair but it's kind of how I feel too

this white dude is sooooooooooo over white dudes let me tell you

It’s safe to say people got carried away in a way that was unjustifiable and is worth maybe acknowledgement if contemplation is too painful. I don’t if you guys saw this but there was a convention in Philadelphia and Bernie seemed mortified by how his own delegates. A few of his more high profile supporters never endorsed the democratic candidate that was running against the overtly racist fascist candidate. To pretend those things didn’t happen or not be a little bit mad about that is only possible if you think the result of the general election was of no consequence, which may be the case for many people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKvNtAVZyOc

maybe the democratic party shouldn't have lost the confidence of an important voter base (young progressives) by doing stuff like bailing out the banks and expanding bush's wars. like, the idea that the left antipathy to hillary* happened either in a vacuum or was bernie's fault is bananas. he was trying to bring the party where it needed to be.

*i was never part of this for the record and after the primary tried to talk up hillary to people, not that one person would have made a difference anyway

Bernie should have established mind control over Susan Sarandon and made her endorse Hillary, of course. That would have definitely sealed the election in Michigan and Wisconsin.

MAY 24, 2008

BRANDON, S.D. — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defended staying in the Democratic nominating contest on Friday by pointing out that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June 1992, adding, “We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.”

Nina Turner Cornel West, probably other people that failed their most important moral test.

you people should all support warren then. she knows what's up in terms of economic inequality and environmental issues even though she isn't as far left as bernie. i would be over the moon if she were the nominee, as i would if bernie were the nominee.

if you really just like the kind of politics represented by obama (who i personally admire, but politically eh) and hillary then that's a totally different issue. your problem with bernie, in that case, is who he was--a progressive challenger--not the way he conducted his campaign.

cornel west is straight up the nicest person i've ever met

Susan Sarandon is fucking dumb, but also nobody listens to Susan Sarandon so who cares.

Xpost lots of people can smile and shake hands

No matter who wins the presidential nomination Bernie will be a sizeable influence on the party's course forward. Just like he was in the primaries.

“It’s bad that Cornel West didn’t endorse the person running against the fascist” you can do it Treeship, go ahead

How was that Bernie's fault?

It's still super early in the process (ridiculously early!), but on a purely personal level my heart says Elizabeth Warren while my head says Kamala Harris.

When I ask myself questions like "whose administration would be extremely transparent?" and "which candidate would set aside the most time to actually listen to voters?" the answer to every one of these questions is Elizabeth Warren. More than Bernie Sanders even.

I just think Kamala Harris is more of a sledgehammer and could make mincemeat out of Trump and his surrogates.

Remember the group of anti-Obama Clinton stans who became Trump supporters? LOL

i admire cornel west quite a bit. his writing as well as the way he appeared to treat people in his daily life. i used to work in a bookstore that he would go in all the time. unlike every other celebrity professor, he never treated the staff as furniture, always seemed genuinely interested in others, to an extent where i took note of it and decided i wanted to emulate it. xp

Is he for or against bailing out the banks.

cornel west?

obviously against the type of bailout we had. he's a leftist.

damn

?

It’s not Bernie’s fault that people he asked to be placed on the platform committee didn’t think the fascist should be stopped. The obvious point is it’s fucked up for resentment not to persist following that.