2020 Democratic presidential primary

Hillary was a #GoldwaterGirl

Bernie didn’t cause hillary to lose. The narrative is dumb. He never went in for the “emails” or anything else. He used the primaries to advance a popular policy agenda and bring to light a longstanding issue with dem pols and their ties to corporate power. This was a point of concern for millions of Democrats including me.

Being mad that primary happened bc it “helped trump” is the same as saying you don’t think there should have been any kind of democratic push to get the party in line with voters’ beliefs and interests.

Bernie had really great campaign t-shirts.

He has a great name. I wish i had a grandpa named bernie.

Of course. I don’t honestly think he had a lot of control over the fact that a lot of of annoying dipshits gravitated toward the campaign. Things take on a life of their own.

Hillary laughed at a rape victim

We live in hell so most of the people here suck.

That wasnt real was it?

Maybe. Who can remember

it wasn't her finest moment but no, she didn't do that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/19/did-clinton-laugh-about-a-rapists-light-sentence-and-attack-sexual-harassment-victims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9be97ccce5d6

That was a dumb controversy bc ppl were acting like the guilty don’t deserve legal defense

can't wait for all the "sheesh, not another white guy!!" complaints followed by a tidal wave of horrific anti-semitism if he gets the nom

i mean, for many reasons, these next couple months are going to be a rough time.

by that you mean the next 21 months...

I don't really know why people who loved Bernie in 2016 wouldn't want him to run this time. He's as old as he would have been for a second term if he'd won in 16, he's better prepared, has built up a huge social media communications presence that he uses to push labour and environmental issues, has more Congressional support for his agenda, is better on foreign policy, has made more inroads with minority voters.

he was too old in 2016 tbh, but there weren't other good options in the primary.

It's no longer 2016. I feel like everyone aged 30 years.

I'm not going to devote any energy into shaming Bernie or Bernie supporters. I don't expect he'll win (I don't even expect he'll come in second place this time), but I will get mad if he perpetuates disharmony when the time for that has passed.

he didn't even do that though

that was such a goofy narrative. he endorsed hillary. he was never equivocal about the threat trump posed. it's just a story that he promoted disharmony.

his social media followers were bad bc social media is bad.

goofyunbelievably stupid

Plus at least some portion of those were foreign trolls in the first place.xp

also in the end most of the bernie people came out for hillary.

i would even argue--without evidence, just speculatively, the way we do it--that he helped hillary. i don't think she would have been a stronger candidate if she came to the general without having faced a real primary challenger. she would have seemed like even more of an "annointed" candidate and people would have been even more frustrated about the whole thing.

^ all of these things are true. He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before. And yes, most of those who voted for him in the primaries voted for Hillary in the general. However, there's a reason we endlessly wrestle over 2016 and, while he might not be the reason, he's central to the topic of discussion. If you can nail down the reason, I'll bake you cookies.

He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before.

Amazing.

He actively ran against her long after she was the winner. That's indeed a problem.

Yeah, I like the idea that primary candidates should endorse their opponents before they even become the nominee.xp

GODDAMMIT MILO YOU SUCKERED ME INTO AN EXCHANGE. I'M NOT DOING THIS SHIT ANYMORE.

However, there's a reason we endlessly wrestle over 2016 and, while he might not be the reason, he's central to the topic of discussion. If you can nail down the reason, I'll bake you cookies.

because the general election resulted in a morally disgusting outcome

so the contentious--but necessary--debates of the dem primaries are now seen in the light of the horrible catastrophe that was the end result of the whole process

afaict nothing Bernie or his supporters did or didn't do caused Hillary to lose the general election, so on this we agree. All the fighting about how the primaries went down is counterproductive and rife with unwinnable arguments.

but the primaries were productive because they brought to light a lot of issues that were marginal before in democratic party politics

Also true, and for that we all benefited.

I’m going to dunk all of you into the Potomac if you keep it up

please do, me first

He was cajoled into supporting Hillary once she was the nominee, but not one minute before.

Hang on, wait. I know this was sort of dealt with upthread, but are you saying he should have supported Hillary before she became nominee? As is, saying something like "If i lose the nomination I will of course endorse Hillary going forward"? Thats the only way I could see how that makes any sense

i think he said that?

saying something like "If i lose the nomination I will of course endorse Hillary going forward"?

If you can direct me to something like this ever happening, I'd be grateful, because I don't remember it. Even though he never at any time had an advantage over her in pledged delegates, it was his right to keep trying to win all the way to the convention. He did so with hostility instead of humility, though.

i don't think more humility would have helped anyone. it also would have been disingenuous because she had extremely different beliefs than him.

So why do we still fret about 2016 then?

He's welcome to run again. I don't think he'll be the nominee, and I don't think it'll even be close this time, so people are just throwing their donations down a hole, but if he holds everyone else to a more progressive line then purpose fulfilled I guess.

people fret about his 2016 campaign because he is a scapegoat

Real talk, I think Clinton supporters (myself included) are just angry because her campaign was deep six'ed from all directions, including from the candidate herself, but she still won the popular vote overwhelmingly and lost the presidency because of the dumb as fuck electoral college and they/we are still super bitter. Sorry about that.

At the same time, I've over a) white dudes, b) candidates at or past civilian retirement age, and c) cults of personality. Give me someone with a good platform who's a hard worker and I don't care how boring he or she is.

elizabeth warren

so over white duuuuuuuuudessssssss

At the same time, I've over a) white dudes, b) candidates at or past civilian retirement age, and c) cults of personality. Give me someone with a good platform who's a hard worker and I don't care how boring he or she is.

― Johnny Fever, Saturday, January 26, 2019 5:45 PM (fourteen seconds ago)

yes, not sure it's fair but it's kind of how I feel too

this white dude is sooooooooooo over white dudes let me tell you

It’s safe to say people got carried away in a way that was unjustifiable and is worth maybe acknowledgement if contemplation is too painful. I don’t if you guys saw this but there was a convention in Philadelphia and Bernie seemed mortified by how his own delegates. A few of his more high profile supporters never endorsed the democratic candidate that was running against the overtly racist fascist candidate. To pretend those things didn’t happen or not be a little bit mad about that is only possible if you think the result of the general election was of no consequence, which may be the case for many people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKvNtAVZyOc

maybe the democratic party shouldn't have lost the confidence of an important voter base (young progressives) by doing stuff like bailing out the banks and expanding bush's wars. like, the idea that the left antipathy to hillary* happened either in a vacuum or was bernie's fault is bananas. he was trying to bring the party where it needed to be.

*i was never part of this for the record and after the primary tried to talk up hillary to people, not that one person would have made a difference anyway