wins otm
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
I've read ethnographic studies on egalitarian societies where shaming is used as a formalized means of social control to keep potential upstarts from getting too big for their britches. The implication being that a dose of mild clowning is strike one but that continued infractions will lead to banishment from the community or, y'know, straight-up execution. Without some formalized structure or an understanding on all sides of what the roles of the shamer and the shame-ee entail, it's kinda just like...aimless vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
i give ppl the benefit of the doubt on these sorts of things pretty much always so i'm inclined to say you were just thoughtless and dumb when you made your comments but other ppl disagreed and i wasn't 100% sure myself. xxp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
My partner uses absolutely no social media and is like a baby panda.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
Aww
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:04 (five years ago) link
I am however apparently a very poor speller in the absence of autocorrect! Xposts
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
Watch out for that stick he's carrying though.
Stick or shtick?
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:06 (five years ago) link
aimless: vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think he should adopt this persona fwiw
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:13 (five years ago) link
Make it a case study then— Public shaming is about making the truth of someone’s actions widely known. Here’s the video of the chud kids (“full video” or not, take your pick, they don’t come off any better in any version) everybody, here they are captured on film. They aren’t being publicly shamed so much as bringing shame upon themselves
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:15 (five years ago) link
Same thing with dragging a maga hat wearing child into the public square.
Resolved: That a rich Catholic school boy who got bused in with a whole bunch of other rich Catholic school boys to stand around Washington DC telling women they shouldn't be allowed to get abortions didn't get "dragged into" shit.
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:20 (five years ago) link
I think a degree of self-shaming is necessary as a corrective against antisocial behavior but what do you do in a world where a generation of people have watched other people coast to fame (and the White House) on a wave of shamelessness, thus blunting much of the impact and the impetus of shaming?
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:22 (five years ago) link
ie is shame a concept that mostly only holds water with us olds?
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:23 (five years ago) link
eliza d otm.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:24 (five years ago) link
It’s not about making them feel bad. If the chud kids have a hard time getting into colleges, finding girlfriends, getting jobs, then the public shaming worked.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:25 (five years ago) link
I feel the same about all convicted felons
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:26 (five years ago) link
I feel like shaming when Cee-Lo says "it's not rape if you don't remember" is valid and necessary.
Public shaming for an unintentional, minor transgression by an individual, less helpful than teachable moment.
Former more common than latter.
MAGA kid can't claim he and his cohorts wore MAGA hats in a very public place, took of their shirts and showed their asses in public, then act like they have any expectation of privacy. Wah wah.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
Felons have never had the option of pretending they aren’t felons. Shaming forces everyone to take that same responsibility for their words and actions
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
I’m trying to agree find common ground with the Captain Save-a-MAGAs: we won’t shame him if we can all agree that he needs that smirk punched off his face (a la Spencer) at 12:01am on his 18th Birthday.
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:33 (five years ago) link
No one is saying the kid is a cool guy, just that it’s weird for national publications like Slate to put someone so young on blast for smirking. It’s displaced anger. The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip and the Republican Party is responsible for promoting a toxic, craven and bigoted form of politics across the nation.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
Just to clarify, I’m ok with the chaperones getting punched also.
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip
FUCK no
― How ILX Finally Stopped Shredding Everything in Sight (WmC), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
No ones accusing them of a crime! Their being under 18 does absolutely nothing to excuse their actions
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
idk trís
totally emboldened asshole bigots dont spring fully formed at 18
v handwavey there about agency of this fella and the many like him
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
does no such option exist in america? in other countries it does. it's possible to show compassion towards criminals. people's behaviour has mitigating circumstances. otherwise why not just stone people to death or jail them for life? why have varying sentences? not sure the punitive mindset has functioned particularly well in dealing with people's bad behaviour yet it seems fairly popular in recent times.
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:45 (five years ago) link
I didn't know ILX to be such a staunch opponent of social determinism.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
^
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:47 (five years ago) link
Sorry menat to one up fernando
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:48 (five years ago) link
Like the kid only matters as an example. Do we want to resist right wing populism by zeroing in on one person at a time and pecking them to death? Would that even work? The live in their own spheres anyway and will just see one another more and more as victims.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:51 (five years ago) link
We could peck more to death with A.I. birds
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:52 (five years ago) link
Now we're talkin'.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:53 (five years ago) link
If you had the technology to peck every single trump supporter to death, that at least would have the benefit of being effective
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:54 (five years ago) link
It serves to marginalize them. It serves to reinforce the idea that what they did is and should be widely considered Wrong. It serves to prevent their behavior from becoming normalized.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
I took a felony when I was much younger when I was charged with something I didn't do, and because I had no money to bail myself it was either plead guilty or sit in jail for months waiting for a trial at which I'd be defended by a PD and probably lose anyway on account of that. What island would you like me shipped to
― calumy (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
mon over here rip and welcome
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:56 (five years ago) link
The one where they teach reading comprehension? Xpost
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:56 (five years ago) link
You seem like such a lovely guy, Dan
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
I like that you capitalized the W, Dan.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
ah yes sorry and carry on
― calumy (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:59 (five years ago) link
What island teaches that
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
This is perfectly emblematic of our disagreement! You apparently think there is something absurd or incorrect about the idea that a given behavior should be universally considered Wrong. I think there’s a categorical difference between good and evil—they’re not just two different sports teams xpost
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
Anyway that was kinda unnecessarily hostile Dan
Xpost
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:01 (five years ago) link
And that evil doesn’t need and doesn’t deserve to always have devils advocate walruses raising their hands from the back of the class
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:02 (five years ago) link
oh good we're getting somewhere, where's that list of whats good and whats evil again, fuckin handy reference that should really put it on the fridge tbh
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:03 (five years ago) link
dan are you new to ilx? maybe take a breather. ppl are discussing this in good faith and you're having a fucking meltdown bc they dare not to see things your way. we're not devils advocates or nazi sympathizers or sea lions or gaslighters if we don't sign onto your take. we're just ppl with different perspectives.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:03 (five years ago) link
I pulled a felony from the tone police but I’m innocent y’all
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:04 (five years ago) link
bet you do a lot of smirking in yr life
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:05 (five years ago) link
Dan, you were just a jerk to rip van wanko when he shared something painful in his past. Should I write a slate article saying you’re a monster?
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:07 (five years ago) link
I do a lot of eye rolling atm
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:07 (five years ago) link
i thought you were mute in winter tbh
― calumy (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:07 (five years ago) link
love it when a longtimer goes awry over some point of small-differences principle
― imago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:09 (five years ago) link