"oh you don't get me I'm the end of the union": lol brexit is how we're all gonna die

I agree with Corbyn. I’d take a Norway style arrangement if it was possible.

So I don't *think* that these two amendments are contradictory but I've completely lost track of what's going on. I'm assuming Dominic Grieve is going to chuck one on the pile as well.

fnar fnar. It's quite amusing that even some casual observers actually fucking know who Dominic Grieve is these days, aka the diaphanous nobody etc.

Beth Rigby's "vote on whether to extend article 50" bugs me, making it sound like the UK has the power to do this rather than just make a request to do so.

If Matt has lost track with what's going on, there's no hope for the rest of us.

Which EU nations are most likely to veto the request? Serious question. I guess Italy, maybe Hungary? Lots of nations won't want to make things difficult for their citizens over here.

I think revoke and reapply is an option as revoking can be done unilaterally so the EU can choose a short extension or two more years of this.

I'm worried that the more the loser's vote people continue to flex their rolodexes and talk loudly - all across the airwaves - about the necessity for a second referendum... the more leavers will become bitterly entrenched and a minority of a minority position - no deal - could become the most popular option amongst the leave-voting public. spite is a trip. particularly in a context where all of the other options seem irreducible and politicians incapable of sorting things out.

"shared institutions and obligations" and "dynamic alignment on rights and standards" sound like quite a soft brexit to me. second vote wording is interesting too. can envisage a scenario where labour electioneers on a manifesto to offer a ratification referendum for either formal confirmation of negotiated deal or considered rejection of the whole shebang

GE set up nicely

CON: we would have delivered Real Brexit if labour had respected democracy. vote for us and we will deliver Real Brexit, and restore faith in politics.

LAB: we would have delivered Sensible Brexit but that shambles wasted 2 years now it's impossible. vote for us and we will rebuild our shattered political and economic institutions. we will seek a new deal with the EU and let people have the final say on the question once and for all

"shared institutions and obligations" = ECJ and FOM-by-another-name?

they've been being a bit cute on FOM ("FOM will end when we leave") in much the same way they were cute about "A customs union / THE customs union".

i just want a no deal is better than a bad deal red white and blue brexit is that too much to ask blimey

I agree with Corbyn. I’d take a Norway style arrangement if it was possible.

― gyac, Monday, January 21, 2019 9:50 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But it's not possible.

Which EU nations are most likely to veto the request? Serious question. I guess Italy, maybe Hungary? Lots of nations won't want to make things difficult for their citizens over here.

― Matt DC, Monday, January 21, 2019 10:43 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nah. Both Italy and Hungary have bigger fish to fry w/ the EU than Brexit. They need all the leverage they can get to oppose the EU w/r/t their own problems. Brexit is a nuisance, but not a very important one for all 27 in the end.

whats impossible about norway style deal

norway dunna want the uk entering their deal (do they have a say then? yes they do. repeat of up-thread)

ofcourse the uk can broker their own norway "style" deal. except they can't and never will, bcz lol uk.

yeah

idk why when anyone suggests norway type deal ppl immediately jump to that. its nonsense. norway didn't trademark their negotiation stance.

I feel asleep watching parliament this afternoon. Am I right in saying it can all be summed up with "well that's another week gone, any questions?"

except they can't and never will, bcz lol uk.

Speaking of, we got one of those weird Wetherspoons magazines with his face on the cover through the door today, and idk how much your average voter would be able to put a name to his face?

i wouldnt be able to put a ne on it but id know him from dodgeball as that pirate lad

norway-style satisfies roughly 0% of brexit voters surely (it includes FoM)?

idk why when anyone suggests norway type deal ppl immediately jump to that. its nonsense. norway didn't trademark their negotiation stance.

― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, January 21, 2019 11:54 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do you know what "norway type deal" means tho? What does it mean, do you think? May doesn't know what it means, that's for sure. Neither do her minions, as few as their are left.. It's a cop out. Don't suggest it if you don't know what it is imo. It's utopia for UK.

I’d like to put a great big ACME anvil to his face, so there’s that...

norway-style satisfies roughly 0% of brexit voters surely (it includes FoM)?

xp whyyyy?!

There is no way the EU all of a sudden will agree to a Norway style deal for the UK. Not because the UK aggressively chose to leave the EU. This shouldn't be hard to understand. No rewards for countries leaving the pact etc

Yes, there's that too

Some form of soft brexit is the only thing that could ever get a parliamentary majority. Which will be seen as an historic betrayal on the part of the hard brexiteers and the whole thing will go on and on and on for another generation at least, permnently destabilising any government without a thumping majority. There is no escaping the brexit hell.

No? They’ll have to pay in but they won’t be able to veto things like the steel dumping plan and obvs solves the border issue. Seems a better scenario than a no deal crash out.

is it possibly the case that this crap deal that just got voted down was the best case scenario?

The crap deal wasn't really a deal though. It was the basis for discussing a deal during a transition period

But maybe that was as good as it gets

norway-style satisfies roughly 0% of brexit voters surely (it includes FoM)?

― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:03 (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*tony blair hands* let me be clear. fuck brexit voters

lbi, i think its on you not to dictate that a customs union etc "norway type" deal isnt possible when it very clearly is. the description is quite obv imo a handy way of depicting a soft brexit that eliminates the need for eg backstop

i also think its quite likely to have a lot more legs with the eu than suggested. the eu has been very clear that it wants a deal and its been very clear that the current deadlock is completely predicated on May's oersonal red lines.

a softer uk approach with real concessions to keep ireland happy would quite clearly imo buy time and concessions elsewhere

not a reward for leaving and not what brexiteers wanted but the best that can be made of it from here tbh

If you insist on obsessing over freedom of movement, it would be.

lol i think i actually talked myself into letting myself be clear ten times in that post

Let me be clear. Nothing has changed. Brexit means Brexit.

brexit ozil

wto salah

firmino

both parties have dismissed the prospect of being "rule takers", which any EFTA type deal would involve, right?

of course the UK will still be rule-takers, even if they crash out, because the EU is the local hegemon and the UK's primary export location

and "a" customs union would involve an assload of rule-taking

so it's a kind of symbolic stance rather than a red line - so could be get-overable

the EU is the local hegemon and the UK's primary export location

surely North America is poised to fall into the UK's lap like a ripe fruit, ready at a moment's notice to consume ever-vaster quantities of whatever it is you people export.

Why my own household bought a can of Lyle’s Golden Syrup just recently

now why would a polish minister fly a flag suggesting ireland should weaken on the border issue

darragh otm - there’s a political will to avoid no deal in the EU, certainly above and beyond any desire to be seen to “punish” the U.K. (if it ever was a desire, the effect political and popular of watching the U.K. crash around like a drunk for the past two and a bit years has more than achieved that) and Norway deal (or Norway-style if you like) is a legitimate way to do that and i’m sure would be acceptable to the EU. Just not the Tory party.

So I don't *think* that these two amendments are contradictory but I've completely lost track of what's going on. I'm assuming Dominic Grieve is going to chuck one on the pile as well.

is the grieve amendment limited to allowing parliament to control the standing orders for EU withdrawal related issues* only ?

*whatever those are.

must be some potential for shenanigans if not. albeit limited by the requirement for an item needing proposers from people in 5 parties

not that parliament has bandwidth for any shenanigans really.

Those repeating the idea that lots of people think no deal means no Brexit might like to look at the terrible evidence it appears to be based on (a Twitter poll where most people probably thought they were voting on on what they wanted to happen – why use the word 'vote'?)

We want to know, do you really know what a no deal Brexit means?

Tonight at 7pm on @SkyNews we're hosting a special #BrexitCrisis programme live from Leeds to discuss some of the key issues facing the country.

Vote below.

— Sky News (@SkyNews) January 20, 2019

This is stunning.

A senior executive at the NHS joins a healthcare startup and then, before she leaves government, writes an article for The Times under her NHS title in which she praises the startup, without disclosing that they've hired herhttps://t.co/SqqRCjXpQy

— kadhim (＾ｰ^)ノ (@kadhimshubber) January 22, 2019

Juliet Bauer, longtime News International employee, current NHS one writes puff piece in Times about her next employers GP app. You could make it up etc....

Giving her an NHS job at all was the first mistake.

Why my own household bought a can of Lyle’s Golden Syrup just recently

oh no, don't mention Tate & Lyle...