xpost oh yeah and it's definitely a classist thing, plus wine labels are hard to decipher so the snobbery is packed in.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:47 (five years ago) link
Not a huge fan of white but I couldn't live without a glass of Alsatian Gewürztraminer every now and then.
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:47 (five years ago) link
tbf north american stores really love stocking overoaked chardonnay and sweet riesling
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
there was no substantial culture of wine-drinking in the uk until fairly recently. find an old person and ask them about pre 70s wine. the US obv in large part derived from beer boys. there is no mystery.
― ogmor, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
The alt-right ruined a perfectly good haircut imo.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
^^^ they did. Poor David Beckham.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:49 (five years ago) link
I've become a big fan of sancerre and alsatian pinot gris
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:49 (five years ago) link
I've had contentious exchanges with bro servers before who were aghast about my being a dude and ordering "girly" drinks. I can get a bartender being disappointed I asked for a vodka tonic when they've got the skill to make much fancier drinks that will net higher tips, but the waiter getting mad because I want a strawberry-banana daiquiri makes no sense. They are both expensive and delicious, everybody wins.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:50 (five years ago) link
xpost yeah I was about to say when I lived in London no one really drank wine but I see recently that a lot of people are drinking, like prosecco. And I've had some decent sparkling UK wine. Nyetimber.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
You should always start your drinking evening with a nice cava or prosecco, it's like drinking a baby cloud.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:52 (five years ago) link
So, to summarize: a 'masculine' relationship with alcohol is founded on unfussiness and sloshedness, whereas a 'feminine' one aims to please an aesthetically sophisticated palate. Or something. Doesn't account for craft beer, although you could view the entire phenomenon with masculinist suspicion and just continue chugging your Coors Light or Molson Canadian or whatever.
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
post If you like sancerre and alsace pinot gris, you will like Pouilly Fume, alsace riesling and italian vermentino, verdicchio, pigato.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
Oh my thing about wine above and men thinking it's effeminate because they don't know about it is more about the knee jerk reaction of men to poo poo stuff they have no knowledge about.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
what abt yr beard-oil applying single malt connoisseur with his expensive cigar cutter and many many opinions?
― ogmor, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
I remember being advised once that any wine with an animal on the label is for girls.
― jmm, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:56 (five years ago) link
I guess if you add power (whether real or merely performed) to the equation, it suddenly becomes legitimate. But it works better with whiskey and cigars than it does with cognac or wine.
xp
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:56 (five years ago) link
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:53 (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
dont think that holds true when you consider eg whiskey either tbh
the type of man this thread is comfortable making yknow broadly negative handwavey comment on is just i guess a dumb man who wants uncomplex stuff that everyone else wants idk its hard to parse rly
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:57 (five years ago) link
I think there's also an element where people think stuff like whiskey has a strong masculine flavor or some bullshit when in actuality it's more sugary and carmely than a bunch of other drinks
all the craft beer manliness was manifested in the endless race to see how many hops they could shove into there
like the main manliness thing with drink aesthetics is "nuance bad, bold good"
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:57 (five years ago) link
god bless darragh for also going straight to whiskey
Part of it is ancestral too: it stems from the desire to replicate a bygone model from your own cultural/linguistic frame of reference.
xps
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:58 (five years ago) link
i always go straight to whiskey
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Friday, 18 January 2019 15:58 (five years ago) link
Wine with animals on it is "critter wine". It's basically because australia realized they had a winning combination on putting animals on wine labels (yellow tail). It sells like crazy. That's it.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
did they not make a can of wine designed for men (as in: MEN!!!!!) or did I just imagine that
― frogbs, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
looks deems we don't understand men so we can only pooh-pooh them
― ogmor, Friday, 18 January 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
canned or boxed wine is good because you can take it to the beach
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
― Yerac, Friday, January 18, 2019 10:53 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Riesling is too sweet for me but interested in trying the others.
More broadly, agree that the bottom line is that men are not supposed to be too "fussy" or nuanced about their drinking. However I think it's interesting how successful the craft beer boom was, suggesting that there was actually a lot of pent-up thirst among men for drinks that, you know, tasted better? And it seems like that in turn has led to the craft whiskey boom etc. There still has to be this sort of playboy-esque air of "sophisticated manliness" to the whole thing sometimes, and that gets a little tedious.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
this stuff!!
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/mancan1.png?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C261
now THIS, I can get into
― frogbs, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
that really gets at the fucked-upness of all the masculine marketing though: selling the idea that men are uncomplicated and just want a big old bar of soap that smells like soap should smell, and they market that by creating a completely new brand with its own high profile marketing campaign
frogs we were just discussing that, it's MANCAN
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
I was in a bar and ordered wine and the bartender gave me a Man Can to taste. It was basically a decent house wine and, theoretically, is a good idea in that it will save you a trip to the bar because it is two glasses worth. What isn't a good idea is calling it the Man Can. The bartender was looking for feedback so I told him to change the name because it's a stupid name. It's a Cleveland invention (where I live) and I think the bartender knew the owner or something.
― brownie, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
Riesling is only sweet from certain regions. It's dry everywhere else. Normally from alsace it's dry.
whiskey is basically distilled beer.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
You've had mancan! Yeah I am fine with wine in cans. It's lighter and more easily transportable.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
xp by ingredients, kind of
before it's aged a bunch of it is basically just pure grain alcohol
pretty sure the cheapest well whiskey is equivalent to everclear that's sat in a barrel for two years to make the legal distinction and then tinted with food coloring
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:04 (five years ago) link
well i mean look
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
and the poo-pooing line to clarify, is that instead of listening or admitting to not knowing something it's the reaction to degrade instead of being open to learning about it.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
there are gatekeepers of masculinity, and other men emulate them, including their irrational drink gendering. sometimes these men are grandfathers, or magazines.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
yea if I liked wine I'd totally be down with the MANCAN just so long as it was called something else
― frogbs, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
can't get past the name so it's MANCAN'T
― brownie, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:07 (five years ago) link
though really you gotta credit Mike's Hard Lemonade for coming up with that angle first. used to love the end of those commercials where the big hand gripping the can would just slam it down on the table and imagining the director yelling "CUT!!! Harder!! Slam it harder!!! Ah fuck too hard!!!"
― frogbs, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:07 (five years ago) link
I am picturing bottles of Zima being poured into Mike's Hard Lemonade bottles in a screened-off part of the brewery
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:09 (five years ago) link
don't worry yerac you're coming over loud and clear
― ogmor, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:09 (five years ago) link
f. hazel otm, half of the masculine marketing crap is "your granddad's cologne" or "grandfather's best whiskey" or whatever because masculinity is liking what old men liked and forever disdaining the new
I also love you all for bringing up Mike's Hard Lemonade, which came out when I was in college, and also bears my name
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:10 (five years ago) link
haha. zima is really popular in Japan. It's weird.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:10 (five years ago) link
wine culture in the US can also be really overly tryhard -- the whole wine tasting tour culture where you swirl the glass and stick your nose in and try to come up with eccentric descriptors for the different "tasting notes." I mean IMO that shit is dumb irrespective of gender and not what enjoying wine should be about. I think there's something very American about that too in a way, like we have to overcompensate for the insecurity that we're not cultured.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:11 (five years ago) link
I mean to walk that back a little it's not necessarily "dumb" I guess but it just seems more like a specialized interest and in no way essential to enjoying wine
But that wine tasting tour culture is everywhere/global.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:12 (five years ago) link
Probably now because tourism is like bursting at the seams and wineries have to put more money into hosting tourists.
― Yerac, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:14 (five years ago) link
Going back to the whiskey thing for a second, it really is acceptable to discriminate aesthetically as a man as long as it matches your forebears' presumed preferences, which implies some amount of nationalist sentiment, whether avowed or not. 'Presumed' is key, though – I wouldn't want to piss off the historicists.
― pomenitul, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:14 (five years ago) link
brownie what bar, if you don't mind my asking?
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Friday, 18 January 2019 16:15 (five years ago) link
I once got invited to a friend's house for a "wine tasting" which ended up actually being one of those in-home sales parties, irritatingly, but part of it was that shtick
the joke was that, while the wine was decent, all of the tasting queues were insanely obvious
so after a couple glasses, I'm still irritated that this is a sales pitch so it became a game where I'd blurt out the answer as soon as the wine seller said their cue
"This one is from blah blah region and has a fruit taste that.."me: "It's strawberry!"
― mh, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:17 (five years ago) link
*tasting cues, not queues