2020 Democratic presidential primary

As a general rule, ought ≠ is.

Is it odd? All kids call their parents regionally/ culturally different things. I called my father "papa" until I disowned him. I'm sure there is video of other politicians telling stories about "my daddy".

that's literally the one good quality Trump possesses, that he's not a phony

ah

“never trying to hide what a piece of shit he is” or “completely incapable of not being a piece of shit all the time”

what matters is that shit is constantly pouring out of his mouth authentically

he is a phony; neither he nor his disciples care that it's obvious

^ yeah, that holden caulfield phony koan was so brow wrinkling I decided to skip over it.

Trump is a literal con artist who has had to pay multimillion dollar fraud settlements.

I can see how Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were 'cooler' (younger, more stylish, smoother talkers, more in touch with popular culture) than their opponents but I don't think it's nearly that clear-cut wrt W or Trump. If they lost, people might be talking about how Kerry's hip countercultural past or Hillary's trendy Beyonce endorsement put them over the edge.

"gave them an edge" or maybe "over the top", sorry

fine, if y'all want to get real semantic about it, I guess it would be more precise to say Trump isn't smarmy.

???

Trump is cruel and dismissive of literally everyone, except when he thinks someone supports him, in which case he throws some false flattery their way.

The way he is in the world is the fakest, stupidest most garbage and least genuine way to be. The fact that anyone reads that as “authentic” suggests they forgot what it means to be a person.

Some people definitely thought the fact that he was a dirtbag was appealing, because it made them feel better about the fact that they themselves were dirtbags. But that’s a different phemomenon.

flappy is right that the "coolest"/funniest/most authentic-seeming candidate is always the winner, this has been the case since idk at least JFK

Nixon?

I can see how Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were 'cooler' (younger, more stylish, smoother talkers, more in touch with popular culture) than their opponents but I don't think it's nearly that clear-cut wrt W or Trump. If they lost, people might be talking about how Kerry's hip countercultural past or Hillary's trendy Beyonce endorsement put them over the edge.

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Friday, January 4, 2019 10:46 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"who would you rather drink a beer with?" originated in 2000 w/r/t W. you could swap it with "stiff vs. loose" which definitely applies. also "swagger" in debates - W. smirking as Gore encroached on him, Trump "owning" his opponents.

LBJ and McGovern were both cooler than Nixon

Trump is cruel and dismissive of literally everyone, except when he thinks someone supports him, in which case he throws some false flattery their way.

The way he is in the world is the fakest, stupidest most garbage and least genuine way to be. The fact that anyone reads that as “authentic” suggests they forgot what it means to be a person.

― Trϵϵship, Friday, January 4, 2019 11:54 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

being a total asshole is cool to millions of Americans

The fact that anyone reads that as “authentic” suggests they forgot what it means to be a person.

― Trϵϵship, Friday, January 4, 2019 11:54 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

see, this was smarmy.

yeah ok Nixon's an exception

xp

being a total asshole is cool to millions of Americans

altho also ^^^ this

The stuff you're talking about seems pretty nebulous, honestly. If the meaning of cool is so open that being an ostentatious asshole was cool for
Trump, being a pseudo everyman was cool for W, being eloquent was cool for Obama, playing sax was cool for Clinton, etc, there's no real reason why anyone couldn't be defined that way. I think we only see that W and Trump as the 'cooler' candidates because they won. If they had lost, we would say they tried too hard and their opponents were actually cooler.xps

Lol evol j

Nixon DID appear on Laugh-In, and hosted a WH birthday celebration of Duke Ellington

Didn’t he carry louis armstrong’s weed through customs too?

Nixon was way cool

Also, Nixon's first opponent was Humphrey, not LBJ :)

Wait, no, that's wrong as well. You know what I mean...

Hahahhaa

The stuff you're talking about seems pretty nebulous, honestly. If the meaning of cool is so open that being an ostentatious asshole was cool for
Trump, being a pseudo everyman was cool for W, being eloquent was cool for Obama, playing sax was cool for Clinton, etc, there's no real reason why anyone couldn't be defined that way. I think we only see that W and Trump as the 'cooler' candidates because they won. If they had lost, we would say they tried too hard and their opponents were actually cooler.xps
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Friday, January 4, 2019 12:12 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump and W. never had to "try" to be cool, that's the key thing. and yes, this stuff is nebulous and the definition of "cool" is wide open and usually defined by the contrast between the two candidates. people vote based on the dumbest shit imaginable.

Dude i know he lost to kennedy

I think we need a new culture that values trying. This idea of a brutally competitive society where you need to seem like your not trying seems flawed.

that's counterintuitive. People are always going to be impressed by impressive things that appear to be done effortlessly. this is, like, central to how large majorities of people identify "talent" and "genius" etc.

trump is def authentic in that

a) he's incredibly guileless. when he panders it's transparent. thinking of one of his rallies where he was literally like "you love your guns don't you" or some shit to his braying acolytes
b) he generally avoids the false behaviors commonly exhibited by politicians such as pretending to be relatable and au fait with popular culture, or having his public presence be mediated by PR staff/based on market research. he's just an unfiltered fox news grandad yelling about what he just saw on tv

arguing that it’s a popularity contest when your two exemplars, W & Trump, both lost the popular vote seems....unpersuasive.

exactly. Bush exhibited a similar comfort & looseness & effortlessness - the dude dodged TWO shoes
xp again with the popular vote / electoral college stuff?

again?

we were talking about elections, not the vote

is there an EC factor for popularity or height in the constitution?

W was more popular with the Supreme Court, that's why he won

Trump was more popular/"cool" with the voters that mattered, that's why he won

thanks, it’s all clear now.

Trump is a demon from hell

He’s not even a person

I don’t think he fits into this schema at all. His campaign was rooted in lies, paranoia and hatred and was a giant scam.

I'm still not 100% convinced he isn't that fungus-covered bean bag chair I threw out in college.

he absolutely does, he's the apotheosis of it

xp

There needs to be a law that anybody who has had a television show or bern in a movie cannot run for office

Are we arguing that the Supreme Court is persuaded by coolness? Did I miss something?

Anyway, if you're right, it seems that the Dems could win every election by nominating the hippest liberal celebrity du jour.