2020 Democratic presidential primary

Xpost exactly

The whole thing started with a toxic right wing myth of people lying to “use” affirmative action. Maybe some people have done this but the idea is popular among right wing types because they think it discredits diversity hiring.

It wasn’t her fault. The video she made also wasn’t as bad as people are making out now.

I think it was a judgment issue and not a character issue. She wasn’t trying to like appropriate their identity as a badge, she was defending herself from being called a lir for repeating some old family lore.

Spot on. She made a calculation to play Donald Trump's game, and you can't win Donald Trump's game because a) it's stupid and b) he will change the parameters anyway.

Never Let Your Opponent Set The Terms Of Debate.

Hopefully she or people around her get why it was a miscalculation.

It is weird how this stupid thing took off in the first place. It is literally nothing.

Just be thankful it happened last year instead of this one

Also she didn’t just “scrape by” to get a job as a law professor she was extremely accomplished. So the idea oofd her as like a C student checking a box with hopes of getting into Harvard is dumb as fuck.

Our country is so stupid.

She should have just spun it back on conservatives. This was about their paranoia about diversity initatives and nothing else.

can we not get back into this? Let's Move Forward.

Ooh there’s a slogan

A bad one but a slogan

So, will Bloomberg drop out before Iowa or wait until he comes in last place and then drop out?

my hope is that bloomberg spends $100 million and then gets 3% in iowa and then he makes a speech about how politics is broken bc he lost

lol

People take such umbrage at the idea of disinformation having had an effect on them yet Adomian exists, has a big platform, and pushed the most toxic kinds of that shit 24/7 and people justify defending him even beyond the normal maybe excusable human way of “yeah he’s a bad person but I like his funny voices”.

I dont know who that is

Cool I think that’s great

I agree with your general point that the seth rich conspiracy stuff is a scourge whoever it comes from

There are plenty of actual things hillary did that one can take exception to, I don’t know why people want to make shit up.

Yeah agreed. All I’m saying is people slightly upthread pretending to not know about it/unwilling to say someone they like is bad for actively pushing it is interesting and will probably have relevance as a case study going given how big a role disinfo plays.

for the record I don't care about james adomian *or* seth rich conspiracies, I was just confused why a funny voices guy was the subject of so many posts on the dem primary thread

Ok

It’s a “process issue”. I can respect that.

"There was one statement from the Cherokee nation but that person was under the misconception..."

fwiw the statement i read was a more fundamental critique, shaming her for reifying the idea that determinations of tribal identity are the territory of modern/western DNA science, what this has to do with the history of racism, etc. etc. none of this will determine her political future but it was helpful to think about as another reason she should not have framed the issue this way (and would not have, if she'd asked tribal representatives first, I think).

Thanks that was accurate assessment of the issue. And despite what Simon said above there were plenty of native activists unhappy with that dna test. For natives identity is wrapped up in notions of sovereignty and not blood quantum.

For natives identity is wrapped up in notions of sovereignty and not blood quantum.

That is no doubt 100% correct. But she never asserted tribal identity, only an historical family connection that included a lineal ancestor. By the time all this was filtered through the media, both the unapologetically partisan media and the simply ignorant media (which two sets describe all national political reporters), such distinctions that mean so much to tribal people get scrubbed away.

Any time this issue comes up on here it gets pointed out that she never used DNA to assert tribal identity yet people seem to ignore it or miss it somehow. Maybe indicative of the pervasiveness if that media filtering or something deeper? idk, odd and perhaps worth thinking about.

again, the issue as i understand it, and as we're describing it here, is *linking* DNA to tribal identity, not *claiming* tribal identity.

But all she said was that she was part native american and had a cherokee ancestor. How is that different from me saying I’m part norwegian?

The lack of visibility of native americans is a major problem. I an sympathetic to their desire to not be instrumentalized to make a point. However, warren wasn’t trying to claim this identity for some kind of advantage; the dna test was about proving she wasn’t a liar. Trump made up that this was a big deal for warren.

It’s annoying how Trump—a lunatic—always ends up being able to shapebreality. His narratives are widely seen as lies, but then they just catch on.

Like the idea that warren is running around lying about being native american like some kind of rachel dolezal character is not real. It’s fake news. Disinformation.

is beto a white male im doing research for a 'lol "democrats"' piece tyia

Yes. O’Rourke is a common Italian surname.

i dont discuss irishness with american ilxors, ye know it all already and are also mental to boot tbh

you'll forgive us, won't you, for being deranged at this late date

i tried to find the press release that i'm half-remembering but it's hard to google for and wading through the october 2018 thread to find it is too daunting. so nevermind i guess. the way it was getting discussed here rubbed me the wrong way was all - i remember it being a thoughtful and provocative argument, not someone willfully misrepresenting warren's position.

I remember thinking that about that letter. I have no wuartel with the people from the cherokee tribes who took issue with her. It’s more the way the whole incident has telephoned on down to now, where I think people are remembering it as worse than it was, I feel.

*quarrel not wuartel. Jesus.

She did claim native identity and used the DNA test to back it up.it was really shitty. Stop finding excuses for shitty colonialism

I’ll say even though she wasn’t claiming tribal identity and the misinformation about that is frustrating, it’s fair to say she should have met w tribal leaders beforehand anyway and coordinated the response w them since the Trump attack line she was responding to isn’t solely about her and her family but implicates that community in a big way.

She did claim native identity and used the DNA test to back it up.

citation needed

http://www.criticalethnicstudiesjournal.org/blog/2018/12/19/syllabus-elizabeth-warren-cherokee-citizenship-and-dna-testing

xp - how do you distinguish between "tribal identity" which was my terminology and I intended to mean 'membership in a tribe', and "native identity" which was your term? What does "native identity" even mean?

What does sophistry mean

Your citation specifically regards her "claims to Cherokee ancestry", which is a rather broad way to state her claim that one specific ancestor of hers was identified as Cherokee in her family lore. Transmuting that into claiming a current and inclusive "native identity" doesn't seem accurate at all.

What does sophistry mean

Words often have shades of meaning and nuance. I am being as clear about these as I know how to be. You are being unclear, and when challenged to clarify you are being evasive.

She did this in the form of a video, check 4:22 in https://youtu.be/RHzbdZuVyAM

U guys are all talking about some bullshit donald trump wants us to talk about. Good job everybody.