2020 Democratic presidential primary

Bernie is an angry hooker scolding his johns. Am i doing this right?

if bernie wore less makeup he might be able to muster a bit of schoolmarm appeal

STOP 👏 SLUT-SHAMING 👏 BERNIE 👏

His voice is too deep and affected, this is why no one wanted to fuck Bea Arthur.

RIP

otm. i don't agree with it, but it's just the reality.

the emasculating trope Bernie Sanders falls under is more "Alex Portnoy's mom"

honestly, the DNC needs more psychoanalytic literary theorists on staff. i doubt they're picking up on 1/2 of this.

Bill Clinton did well because independent voters felt like they could share a beej with him

I haven't eaten today

did you mean beef?

I made/folded 90 vegan DUMPLINGS! yesterday from scratch and now am drinking chateauneuf blanc because I am done for the rest of the year. And I am still annoyed at cheap shots at women that are infinitely more qualified as candidates than most men who have been elected.

“Yes, woe is us. We have the deepest bench of strong candidates of our lifetimes, and we just brought a bunch of true progressives into the house and are looking to do the same in the senate in 2020, but Bernie is the only "decent" one. gtfo”
― Johnny Fever, Monday, December 31, 2018 11:02

It’s less frustrating when you realize that people who say that are (generally) just a particular variety of low info voter

Treesh consistently otm as ever

i think this is good point. warren is going to be difficult to attack in the primaries (and so are many others for the same reason!)

This bears mentioning in an even larger context - whatever Trump says about ANY candidate will automatically take that critique off the table. The guy is so loathed that "you are parroting Donald Trump's talking points" will be an effective push back every time. https://t.co/AOaEh3Vjt8

— Thomas C. Bowen (@thomascbowen) December 31, 2018

I’ve seen too many variations on “candidate x will be obliterated by a single nickname our unpopular president tags him/her with”

Yerac OTM about someone younger. The thing that makes Beto most palatable to me is that he's not old enough to be receiving Social Security.

Bernie should pass the torch to Warren and let her run with it. The man is 900 years old.

What do you see as the key differences?

thread on that

Liz Warren is from the tradition of Brandeis: she's a progressive (in the original meaning of the word) who wants to limit corporate power. To her, the problem isn't capitalism per se: the threat is the concentration of power and capital.

Bernie is from the tradition of Debs.

— Gritty 2020🔥 (@maxberger) December 31, 2018

A friend compared her to Brandeis a few years ago, an OTM comparison.

that thread also makes the point that the difference is negligible from the POV of a general election voter, but it's a big deal in terms of goals and tactics

How is Bernie in the tradition of Debs?

Not much support is provided for that thesis in the thread, in terms of specific policies, votes, methods that distinguish the two politicians. I'm genuinely curious where you would expect them to differ on those more concrete things.

the most useful tweet in that discussion thread imo

And Beto is from the tradition of Mao. The only candidate who understands the need for a global proletariat to combat US capitalist imperialism.

— we're going to abolish ICE (@SeanMcElwee) December 31, 2018

Lol

haha

has bernie ever said he wants to abolish capitalism? i'm not sure i see how "a progressive who wants to limit corporate power" applies to warren but not to him.

I’ve seen too many variations on “candidate x will be obliterated by a single nickname our unpopular president tags him/her with”

on the contrary, I think if its a close field and Trump goes hard after one in particular then that person will probably win

Not much support is provided for that thesis in the thread, in terms of specific policies, votes, methods that distinguish the two politicians. I'm genuinely curious where you would expect them to differ on those more concrete things.

Bernie isn't as radical as he used to be (at least publicly) but there's a difference between Warren's desire for "strong, healthy markets" line and Bernie's views. I would happily vote for Warren in the general and maybe in a primary but more stringent corporate regulation isn't going to save us.

Are we tiptoeing around bernie wanting to nationalize industries or something? I’ve never heard him argue such

I am probably super capitalist because money is the prime way that poc and women can pull themselves out from the thrall of white men fuckery. But I still want to distribute more income for more public services.

bernie has never once positioned himself as anticapitalist AFAIK (which is too bad)

What Bernie calls "democratic socialism" mostly seems like "strong, healthy markets with limits on corporate power" to me, as J. D. notes: he wants single-payer health care (a system which is itself a compromise between NHS-style socialized medicine and a privatized system), tuition-free public colleges, a higher minimum wage and protections for labour, restrictions on tax evasion schemes, a shift to green energy, higher taxes on those who can pay, most of which I think Warren would be in favour of. Does anyone see him as an Attlee or Nehru who would e.g. nationalize banks and major resources? The models he always cites are Canada and Nordic social democracies, which are all capitalist systems with stronger welfare states. xp to milo

this was bernie in 2015:

So the next time you hear me attacked as a socialist, remember this:

I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal.

I believe in private companies that thrive and invest and grow in America instead of shipping jobs and profits overseas.

Yeah, what a radical.

the people who like him don't like him because he's "radical." they like him because he directly addressed many of the things that ail our stupid, bloated, unfair and violent country.

warren addresses these things to. in practice, i feel like they're similar even though warren has said she is a "capitalist in her bones" or whatever.

she would be a less effective person for like, the DSA, to rally around because she doesn't use the word socialism. but it's possible she would be a more effective president.

He’s pragmatic and I like it.

Sund4r otm

xxp - as I said, Bernie isn't as radical (I'd also call him a social democrat now rather than a socialist), but his rhetoric (and IMO underlying ideology) is openly hostile to corporate capitalism (Wall Street acting as 'gangsters and loan sharks'), where Warren is not.

I think that difference matters and is real - as that tweet thread said, the difference doesn't necessarily show up in Senate votes or in ways that primary voters care about, but it's a real difference of opinion.

warren is hostile to wall street

Warren created the CFSB wtf did Bernie get passed of comparable significance

It’s been one of her defining characteristics in political life

In terms of “hostile to wall at” legislation

Xp

probably stating the obvious here but warren and bernie running in the primary, and speaking frankly about M4A and corporate taxation etc, will hopefully move the needle to the left for whoever does end up the candidate (assuming it's neither of them).

and while I agree that misogyny in america is a well that isn't drying up soon, i do think that the right will not be as successful at demonizing warren as they were HRC. that said, i don't think the demonization of hillary clinton was what caused her to lose the electoral college. she just wasn't that inspirational to minority voters, in general, and the voters of wi/mi/pa specifically. i'm not totally convinced warren would excite the former, but her specific policies could drum up turn out in those states that hillary lost (and should have won). i'd happily vote for her. and i'd love to see a completely female ticket. the only dude that's bringing anything unique to the table ideologically is bernie, and i'd much rather see him throw his support and influence behind a younger candidate than run himself

Also, Hillary Clinton had been a boogeyman of the right for 25 years. Warren is still comparatively new to most Americans, even if political junkies have known about her for 10 years. She wouldn't enter the horserace with nearly as much machinery already aligned against her.

also she is an outsider. no one believes shadowy corporate forces are pushing her forward.

right. and not just machinery, but grist for the mill. hillary, for all her good qualities, has been involved in some scandalous shit, some real and some not. warren's only ~controversial~ (vs ideological or political) baggage is the 23&me stuff which was a little boneheaded and not even remotely disqualifying for the vast majority of voters

xp