one out all out: a brexit from the modern world and every one of its problems please (we're all gonna die lol)

That would be lead story on the national news too, of course.

One is forced to wonder how often the words "stupid voters" emerge from the lips of politicians of all parties when they converse privately.

🎣

Guess what Newsnight's leading with?

And, taking the fact that he said "Stupid woman" as fact, of course.

Totally ineffectual Labour woman doing more harm and good by apparently admitting he did say it.

nest pas

(Not) to be a pedant but since I know you're quite fond of this tournure, it's 'n'est-ce pas'.

It's a joke, duh.

I can never tell with these things. If so, mea culpa.

think youll find it has a '?' also fyi

:-)

:-)

I don't give a fuck that he said stupid woman, which he clearly did, you don't have to be a professional lip reader to make that out on the video. So why does he have to pretend he said stupid people, it just makes him look shifty and stupid himself. He should have just said, yes I said it, to myself and not to the House, it's not in Hansard or anything, I apologise to all the lip readers out there who were subjected to the vile video of this unprecedented incident.

otm

fuck me, did he actually say it? daft bastart

zelda otm

1) he did it, it's undeniable, 2) it's the truth, she is a stupid woman, 3) quibbling/apologizing makes him look weak

I fucking love it when the party of filibustering domestic abuse bills/upskirt camera bills and disenfranchising working class women and the 3rd child rape clause tries to fucking pretend that they are above sexism. fuck 'em, wouldn't even care if he wished death on her!

He's been called, a Czech spy, a traitor, a supporter of the IRA, a supporter of Hamas, a supporter of Iran, a supporter of Russia, an anti-Semite, a Marxist, a clear and present danger to the people of the United Kingdom etc etc, and it's made no difference to his support. Tomorrow's fish + chip papers.

He probably did say it, he's not very good at keeping his cool when he's obviously irritated. It's not especially helpful but it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure people who really care about Brexit one way or the other are going to allow this to distract them from developments for very long.

He's been called, a Czech spy, a traitor, a supporter of the IRA, a supporter of Hamas, a supporter of Iran, a supporter of Russia, an anti-Semite, a Marxist, a clear and present danger to the people of the United Kingdom etc etc, and it's made no difference to his support. Tomorrow's fish + chip papers.

― It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christ (Tom D.), Wednesday, December 19, 2018 3:35 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he's literally never ahead of theresa may as preferred prime minister in any opinion poll ever.

maybe this will finally put him over the top

I suppose David Miliband would have been miles ahead by now?

you're mixing arguments. jeremy corbyn is not a particularly popular party leader, and never has been during his time at the helm of labour. the press focus on his gaffes, "controversial" beliefs and associations, bigotries (real or imagined), etc. likely has an effect on his popularity with the british public

he is fairly apt at making a bit of an arse of things and giving them ammunition

'Likely'. I'm not mixing arguments, Ed Miliband might have been a more popular party leader, I have no idea, fat lot of good that did the Labour Party.

So who would you prefer Jim, someone who rolls their eyes when austerity is brought up but appeals to floating centrists?

tbf to the Maybot, she won 42.4% of the popular vote, no Tory leader has done that since Thatcher, so somebody out there likes her.

It's not Corbyn's political beliefs that are the issue (for me anyway), more that he just doesn't seem very politically savvy. Stupidwomangate is just a very minor example of this

xp
literally big Russell & Bromley stilettos to fill there!

I hate most politicians tbh + am not even that keen on Corbyn, but it often seems all the alleged "good politicians" seem to be complete fucking melts by some cosmic coincidence!

Agreed, I'm certainly no Corbynista.

So who would you prefer Jim, someone who rolls their eyes when austerity is brought up but appeals to floating centrists?

― calzino, Wednesday, December 19, 2018 4:07 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im not a supporter of the labour party, am a fundamentalist scottish nationalist, and don't live in the UK, so who i would prefer is not really very important. i don't want to the tories to win and I'm not under the illusion that owen smith or burnham would've romped home 1997 style in last year's general election, or even done as, comparatively, well as corbyn. however the idea that this means that we can't criticize corbyn for being not particularly effective as a politician doesn't seem to follow for me

especially as he is at the moment leading labour to persistently lag behind the tories in the polls despite how much of a shower they are

you're not often wrong but you're right again.

xp
well that's wrong for starters, but fuck polls apart from under election conditions or the exit one, but you might want to check some of the latest ones before talking that hackneyed bollox about them lagging behind for goodness sake!

Polls are affected by respondents’ entrenched views about Brexit and May’s vote/polling is enhanced by batshit UKIP morons returning to the Tory belfry. She’s perfectly happy to pander to them with immigration controls to keep it that way.

All of these things can be true at once:

- Corbyn is very popular among a segment of the population, to an almost creepy extent in places
- That segment is bigger than you would have expected it to be two years ago but it's still a relatively narrow part of the electorate and very unevenly distributed geographically
- Labour in itself is much more popular than Corbyn right now but that's in part down to its positioning under his leadership
- Maybe 40% of the electorate really fucking hate the Tories (more if you include SNP voters)
- I'm not sure May herself is especially popular among any group right now
- Just because she's consistently polled better than Corbyn in the 'best Prime Minister' category doesn't mean people think she's a particularly good one
- A lot of people look at Corbyn and think he would be a complete disaster as PM
- A lot of people in the country are still very, very excited about Brexit and vote Tory for that alone
- Labour could have a more popular leader and still be doing worse because they wouldn't have attracted votes from third parties
- Until Brexit happens it's difficult to see what would have to happen for Tory polling to drop significantly below 40%
- It would be a lot better if Brexit didn't happen

however the idea that this means that we can't criticize corbyn for being not particularly effective as a politician doesn't seem to follow for me

Point out where this is happening itt.

people literally saying all day that he didn't say "stupid woman" and even if he did it doesn't matter all day, as if that's not clearly a gaffe that the tories - with their brass necks - were going to exploit

Maybe I wasn't making a point about the incessant hysterical attacks on Corbyn made by the British media being largely ineffective, maybe I was making a point about how he's perfect, somebody help me out here.

It feels like a decent party machine has been built around him now to compensate for his shortcomings, like every decision is made by committee right now and public pronouncements are weighed up in advance. As opposed to two or three years ago when he would just say whatever he felt like at the time.

TBH I think hysterical attacks from the press actually strengthen him at this stage. The antisemitism row feels like the only thing that's dented his popularity because there was actually some substance to it and Jim if you look back the thread is full of posts talking about how badly he was dealing with it.

OTM on the anti-Semitism row, though the GBP don't really care about it anyway, regrettable as that may be.

should just wear a tshirt that says stupid woman on it while denying he ever said stupid woman idk why this is so hard

I'm Opposing Stupid →

I'm no psephologist - I can barely spell it - but I suspect one of the problems the Labour Party has is Liberal Democrat voters who have gone over to the Tories and stayed there because the Lib Dems are in even worse shape than the Tories.

Labour in itself is much more popular than Corbyn right now but that's in part down to its positioning under his leadership

this seems irrefutable yeah

also now that I've heard the "stupid people" explanation I can't unsee/hear it when I watch the footage. it's the blue/gold dress all over again!

he's literally never ahead of theresa may as preferred prime minister in any opinion poll ever.

This is mostly true with one important exception; he overtook May after the GE last year. The press were bashing him as much as ever but the difference was people seeing him on tv more plus May’s own inept performance. When Yougov polled Labour voters for why they voted Labour, he was the third highest reason, and that was voters not members.

The antisemitism row feels like the only thing that's dented his popularity because there was actually some substance to it

This is true and I agree that there is a case to answer. I’d also add his response to the Skripals - that was hugely unpopular and the polling took a pretty sustained hit after that.

It is 100% true that he makes unforced errors. It is also true that the press focus on a lot of ludricrous shit as much as the stuff that actually matters - this is part of the reason his support is so defensive and entrenched. I definitely rolled my eyes when I read the Guardian’s political editor tweet this yesterday:

Hmmm: but this doesn't look so great (God what a waste of everybody's bloody time) ...https://t.co/sT31j5ds5o

— Heather Stewart (@GuardianHeather) December 19, 2018

Do I need to tell you that she tweeted far more about this than impending no- deal disaster or the immigration white paper yesterday?

he was pretty effective when it mattered: during the 2017 GE... where he was fighting on a very hostile electoral map left for him by miliband-15 (eg labour needed a 1997 level swing to get a one seat majority in 2017.) the 2017 electoral map is now notably marked by tory and SNP vulnerabilities