WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

It definitely feels the least like it is “made by fans” of the series than it has been before

Rusty for all his faults, Tennant, Moffat Capaldi etc were all huge boffins

On the one hand it is cool to clear away all the fanwank & old villains... but on the other hand when there’s hardly any mythos at all, and no “there” there, it’s not really that enjoyable. Or maybe it would be with better writing etc

I'm totally up for a clean slate, non-fanwanky Who - but yeah it would have to be heaps better written than this. There were hints of what that might feel like in the Norway ep I guess.

Having said that, if it is truly experiencing a renewal in terms of audience/non-fan public enthusiasm then I'm pretty happy to sit out until it gets proper weird again.

yeah if other ppl are super into then yay

It definitely feels the least like it is “made by fans” of the series than it has been before

Rusty for all his faults, Tennant, Moffat Capaldi etc were all huge boffins

omg Veg :D get ready --

Chibnall is such a massive spod that as a schoolboy he went on TV, representing his Dr Who fan club, to tell two writers of Dr Who that they were terrible and had made the show really uncreative and boring that year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIqTPQqgvQ

(to be fair, they were indeed terrible, but this is the "there's always a tweet" of criticising Dr Who writers)

LOL

welp

I saw that video before but I didn't find out it was Chibnall until halfway through this season. (and having recently suffered through the 6th Doctor seasons, I must say Pip & Jane deserve the roasting)

Just found that the first 50 Big Finish stories, plus various other releases, are on Spotify. Allegedly the new series soundtrack should be on there, but can't see it in Australia.

OK that is interesting. I never thought to check music streaming services for audio plays.

I mean, my limited personal experience suggests Big Finish is more the scheme for providing Nicholas Briggs with full employment rather than providing quality Doctor Who, but sic is your expert guide to the gems amongst the dross.

finally, something to listen to on spotify

Jubilee is respected, isn't it? I'm starting with that one.

Quality sic-summary here: Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

i stopped watching this after episode 4. having a hard time getting up the will to watch the rest of the series due to the lack of enthusiasm even here. DJP? What do you think?

there's lots of good Big Finish audios! it's a good medium for Doctor Who, you can do low-stakes storytelling and experiment a little, not worry about special effects.

So I'm coming in this season as completely new to nu-Who. I've been meaning to join back in for years, but finally made the effort with the new doctor. Previously my Who was limited to a few novels back in junior high and whatever random reruns I caught on PBS back in the mid-to-late 1980s.

I thought the show looks great and I really think Whittaker could be great, but she seems thinly drawn so far. I like the companions quite a bit, would have liked more of Yas's story though. It Takes You Away was easily my favorite episode, was hoping for less time spent on earth tbh.

My wife had never seen a second of Who before and she really enjoyed it, typically more anxious for a new episode than I was.

I didn’t hate the finale as much as you lot, it was good for Chibnall at least. Not great by objective measures, of course.

Have we ever done a proper poll of nu Who? We could do it in the long interregnum, and also to get this season out of our minds.

i stopped watching this after episode 4. having a hard time getting up the will to watch the rest of the series due to the lack of enthusiasm even here. DJP? What do you think?

I thought "Rosa" was excellent and the stretch from "Demons of the Punjab" through "It Takes You Away" were all very good to excellent. I enjoyed "Arachnids in the UK" primarily because giant spiders are inherently terrifying. "The Tsuranga Conundrum" was the worst story of the season and I'd still call it enjoyable enough; I wouldn't actively choose to rewatch it, mostly because it's the one episode without a clear "oh, that was great" moment. Also, as I said before, the overarching season story focusing on Graham's grief, particularly to the exclusion of Ryan's, got under my skin.

I wouldn't say this was an essential season of Doctor Who but I would say it was worth watching. I would definitely go back to it before any of the episodes from nu-Who season 2, including "School Reunion" and "The Girl in the Fireplace" which I'd say were objectively "better" but have pretty much zero rewatchability for me based on how much I hate and despise the 10/Rose pairing. (I've never done a faster about-face on a companion than I did on Rose, who I absolutely love in nu-Who S1.)

hey Jon! I'd recommend watching nu-Who Season/Series 5 next, especially if you post along as you guys make your way through it :D

ha ha, I watched the clip again, and here's Chibnall in 1986, on the 1986 series:

"It doesn't seem to have much to it. It hasn't improved that much since it went off the air. It could have been a lot better. It could have been slightly better written, especially the last story."

"Not only that, but it was very cliched. It was very routine, running up and down corridors, and silly monsters."

"Did you not feel that the story with [monster] was perhaps a little too routine Doctor Who: very much what the audience is expecting, it's not very challenging for them to watch?"
"The story itself has been done in different ways in the past few years, very much a whodunnit upon a space liner. Very much a traditional sort of thing that people will expect Doctor Who to fall into."

The interviewer closes by asking 16-year-old Chibnall if he doesn't feel silly being into Doctor Who, as he's really too old for it, and asks him whether he thinks he'll still be at it when he's 50.

(I've never done a faster about-face on a companion than I did on Rose

For me it was Donna, in the opposite direction: hated her in The Runaway Bride, groaned when I heard she was returning, but found her really likeable, and in both Turn Left and her departure, really affecting. Of course RTD had to go and fuck about with that in the interminable Tennant departure...

even in exile, i shall lead

Donna ruled, what they did to her was dramatically satisfying and really, really awful and terrible

and yet, you falter

Don't think I can be bothered to watch the finale. Does Ryan learn to ride a bike?

no, and it's easy to avoid the finale -- nothing happens.

He gets to run around shooting a space gun the size of his torso at incompetent robots again, except this time it’s cool and heroic for some reason. I couldn’t hear the dialogue to tell why.

no

Just a disregard for the most basic storytelling rules. I would've liked the entire last episode to be about getting him to stay on his bike.

Break the rules, don’t break the rules, just *be interesting*

Some decent write ups here - https://medium.com/@ellardentI

Can't remember what the floating rags in ep 2 told the Doctor, but that never paid off, did it?

I don't think anything has paid off in this season.

That’s where not watching the finale lets you down: in episode 1, Ryan doesn’t want to call Graham “grandad”. In ep 9, he still doesn’t want to call him grandad. In ep 10, this detailed emotional arc is brought to a triumphant close by having an adult man say “grandad” to another adult.

I haven't watched any of them since the spider episode and I don't feel like I've missed out on anything at all.

After you get past the ones written by Chibnall, which includes the first five, there are some good ones. Demons of the Punjab is great. It Takes You Away is fun.

IMDB's lowest rated episodes, from https://www.ratingraph.com/serie/doctor_who-3689/

The Tsuranga Conundrum
Arachnids in the UK
Sleep No More
Fear Her
In the Forest of the Night
Love & Monsters
The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos
The Witchfinders
The Ghost Monument
The Lazarus Experiment

Well ok, but also review bombing is one of the ways these mra pricks think they can throw their weight around, so need to be careful to avoid giving them oxygen.

Yeah, that is, to be clear, claiming that The Tsuranga Conundrum is the worst Nu-Who episode ever, which it isn’t, but it does have a male alien giving birth.

this detailed emotional arc is brought to a triumphant close by having an adult man say “grandad” to another adult.

Pretty sure this happened in the closing seconds of ep 9.

How is The Idiot's Lantern not in that bottom 10?

Sleep No More was the first episode ever where I couldn't remember a single thing about it afterwards.

I think the Idiot's Lantern is a teensy bit unfairly maligned - at least the setting is fairly distinctive unlike a million space base/modern day earth monster of the week fillers.

Yeah, couldn't tell you a thing about Sleep No More. Was it something to do with a doll house?

Sleep No More is the found horror one, I think? There's only two decent Gatiss episodes iirc - the Dickens one, and the charming silly Robin Hood one everyone hates for some reason

Sleep no More was the one with the sandmen and Reese Shearsmith. I didn't think it was that bad, but I can't remember much.

I thought that one was alright, I think.

Tsuganaaihiahuh Whatever is another one I wasn't arsed to catch up with.

yeah, Sleep No More was alright, elevated by the found footage schtick

Pretty sure this happened in the closing seconds of ep 9.

he says "I'm not ready to call you Grandad yet" and Graham goes "yet!" at the end of ep 9 iirc. you can't say Chinballs doesn't build his character development carefully

Watch The Tsuranga Conundrum on mute with like some of the recent Aphex Twin shit playing over the top maybe.

Found this mostly OTM
https://them0vieblog.com/2018/12/13/doctor-who-series-eleven-or-thirty-seven-review-retrospective/

A lot of that is OTM. I enjoyed this season more than the person who wrote that in that I don’t think it was the weakest season of nuWho yet but I agree with the criticisms, particularly the “conservative storytelling with a veneer of progressivism” observation.

(I also agree with the alignment of 13 and 5, only 5 is my favorite Doctor so I don’t see that as a minus.)

so happy they're finally cranking out classic season box sets on blu-ray, by the way. supposedly gonna do 3-4 a year going forward.

Dan's link mostly otm. This season was apologetically progressive, at best, politically, and artistically po faced.