favourite of the big four english team sports

League's got a couple of obvious similarities to American Football but I never get why people think it's slow, there's way more passing and running than most domestic Union.

LJ I swear I'll stop getting into League vs Union fights. It's only cos I live in a place where everybody agrees so our usual level of discussion is zinging Union if it happens to be on in the pub.

Unlike the old days when Scotland were good and were worth watching as it was the one team sport we were good at

team sports

- rubbish to watch as u can't see everything that's going on, too many people, always seems crowded
- rubbish conceptually as surely the point of professional sport is attaining individual glory, pushing the self to its physical and mental limits. u can't do that w/teammates dragging u down. team sports just seem so impure in comparison to individual sports. tbh i can't really think of them as sports at all, they're pastimes and games
- rubbish to play for a literally endless list of reasons

speaking as an amurrcan rugby is sort of a more fluid version of american football, which i can basically dig. i've also hung out w/some irish rugby dudes and they were pretty cool.

i like football well enough but it's a little fucked as a game--worse officiating than all 4 american sports which is amazing.

hating team sports suggests to me a preference for people, personality (ego) and (obv) individuality over interest in the nature of the game itself

rubbish conceptually as surely the point of professional sport is attaining individual glory, pushing the self to its physical and mental limits. u can't do that w/teammates dragging u down. team sports just seem so impure in comparison to individual sports. tbh i can't really think of them as sports at all, they're pastimes and games

what is this weird social darwinist bullshit?

I think the biggest problem people have with League is that it's too...easy? It's geared towards flowing play and plenty of tries, which is a good thing, but it doesn't have the mystical 'battle lines' Herculean war-struggle-epic-clash element which gets peoples' rocks off in the Union code. Also, in Union, when something spectacular does happen, it comes as more of a surprise, it's somehow more momentous. I personally have disdain for much of Union's mysticism, and I can completely see your point, but mine stands.

impure? nah im not gonna refer to a certain country in a certain period of time

the point of professional sport is attaining individual glory
u can't do that w/teammates dragging u down
team sports just seem so impure in comparison to individual sports

tongue-in-cheek i'm sure but...wow

also, the point of sport is to WIN, and any win that u have to share w/people who have perhaps done less than u have is diluted

Louis likes proper scrums

I find Rugby Union exhilarating to be honest, think it's really well run and since more players went pro it's just been getting better and better. The growing interest in it reflects that too I reckon.

It's not that League is slower, it's that League is like basketball. I can't see any appeal in league whatsoever, it's just Union minus all the set pieces and tactics.

x-post louis otm, after a big game of Union the players are utterly fucking butchered, it's astonishing athleticism.

x-x-post lex this is utterly mental, you can't possibly believe this nonsense.

Rugby League is to Rugby Union as Sky Sports All Stars Indoor Soccer is to the World Cup

the point of sport is to enjoy yourself and to entertain as well as having a will to win, but if you lose you do it with dignity is what the lex means surely

multi xpost to Lex

I guess I thought you wd say something like that. It's a valid take on sport I guess - it reminds me of some old line about a gentleman "never referring to soccer and rugger as sports - they are games". But you cd just as easily take the opposite view and look at sport as cooperative enterprise and the striving of a group to overcome the limitations of the individuals. Plus most team sports allow for the genius of the individual as well as the organisation of the team. I just feel like team games are ultimately richer and more rewarding texts precisely because its harder to follow everything happening at once.

I think the biggest problem people have with League is that it's too...easy?

Union's the easy one. For a start, everybody has to work in a Rugby League team whereas in Union you have half-a-dozen backs hanging around doing nothing.

lex this is some ayn rand shiznay, besides take cricket, which is comprised of little personal achievements within a sophisticated team context, i mean every team sport is like that when it comes down to it argh it's not like stalinist communism or whatever

admittedly it is kinda shitty to let down a team, but it happens to everyone, the lesson is responding to it, learning from it

NV otm

but its the backs that give all the excitement and flair!

It would help if they could catch and pass the ball!

All right, this thread is finally getting going. Lex, say something else.

but its the backs that give all the excitement and flair!

^^^ Never seen England's RU team

I used to dislike team sports until I got into basketball.

blah jonny wilkinson blah best tackler in the england team blah

lex are you serious about what you said?

it reminds me of some old line about a gentleman "never referring to soccer and rugger as sports - they are games"

yeah this person was a bellend

Fumbles, guys falling over, forward passes... Union's a veritable comedy of errors!

The Lex must be a Chelsea fan!

Ronan is right that Union has been improved since professionalism and, I'd argue, since League players came in or since players crossed codes more freely. My gripe is mainly directed at the utterly fucking tedious England team, but I'm not totally immune to the charm and excitement of watching two teams of chinless toffs hoofing a ball into touch for 80 minutes with occasional pauses for trying to kill each other.

That's what always gets me about Union, if these guys are so good how come they're forever dropping the ball!

it's only a matter of time until american football takes over england anyway

But you cd just as easily take the opposite view and look at sport as cooperative enterprise and the striving of a group to overcome the limitations of the individuals.

well, individual sports are about striving to overcome those limitations yourself. the internal psychological narrative is far more compelling to me.

Plus most team sports allow for the genius of the individual as well as the organisation of the team.

yeah but they don't reward it unless the genius individual is backed up by other individuals strong enough to carry the team through to the trophy!!

i mean, there's a reason that doubles in tennis is just a lark which singles players don't take seriously...

i mean, why should you have to rely on anyone else to help you overcome your own limitations??? that's not an ideal anyone should aspire to.

Martina did

McEnroe did

i remember some terrific wimbledon doubles games in the early 80s

being part of a team is awesome and exhilarating as shit.

btw saying this: rubbish conceptually as surely the point of professional sport is attaining individual glory, pushing the self to its physical and mental limits when sports like soccer (where you are pretty much sprinting for an hour and a half) and water polo (where you are sprint-swimming and treading water for an hour) exist is kind of silly.

also um individual athletes still have coaches, so your "they do it on their own" line isn't really true

I can completely dig on tennis or boxing for the purity and the gladiatorial ethic but that doesn't exclude team games for me. Also I like the idea that rugged determination and slightly pedestrian work-ethic can beat beautiful style sometimes and that happens a lot less often in single player sports I think.

lex do you hate football because it's a team sport or because of the people who like/play it?

both martina and mcenroe would've blown off a doubles match in an instant if it threatened their singles success

xps but once they're actually out in the arena they're on their own - which is why i'm so against on-court coaching in tennis. tarnishes the whole sport imo, a total embarrassment

Union's the easy one. For a start, everybody has to work in a Rugby League team whereas in Union you have half-a-dozen backs hanging around doing nothing.

The idea that either is easy is completely moronic. That said the second sentence is even stupider, have you ever seen Union recently? The backs put in as many tackles as anyone else.

As for "comedy of errors", this is just silly, if a team's dropping the ball it's cos they are put under pressure more or hit harder.

x-post I believe it's only in England (and say Leinster!) that it's a toff sport, think bigger. I'd disagree about league players influence, isn't it usual that these players are terrible? Trying to think of major success stories. Do many Union players go to League? It seems rarer...

yeah honestly there are few things more awesome than winning a championship with teammates, or watching your teammate come through in a big situation

lex do you hate football because it's a team sport or because of the people who like/play it?

w/football it's both, which is why it's the worst of these. every football player i've encountered in the media has been such an unsympathetic, obnoxious twat.

I believe it's only in England (and say Leinster!) that it's a toff sport, think bigger.

And Scotland

Lex is right about doubles, it's basically like when John Virgo used to do his impersonations of Dennis Taylor and Ray Reardon in the intervals during the snooker

Also sure it's cool when athletes overcome their personal limitations but often watching feats of athletic prowess is dull cos the aesthetic is so spartan compared to the inventiveness and fun and randomness of team sports.

I guess I'm kind of wholeheartedly against a definition of "sport" that excludes soccer/football/basketball/etc but includes table tennis.

being part of a team is awesome and exhilarating as shit.

no way, it's annoying and awkward and constraining

i always feel a bit sad for people who are holding up giant trophies w/their teammates and they can only get like one hand on it lol. how much more exhilarating to hold it up all by yourself!

Scotland outside of the Borders region,where farmhands play it. Theyre not exactly posh. Its not restricted to farm owners.

It's posher than it is England

Lex do you like Boxing?