one out all out: a brexit from the modern world and every one of its problems please (we're all gonna die lol)

beautiful moral maze earlier, which duly trashed the rapporteur's poverty report with the help of a very bullish + hateful Portillo. Some gr8 arguments like using poor ppl having broadband and smartphones as a reason to dismiss their poverty. Seriously guys, commit suicide or try and get murdered very soon. And then when the BBC is privatised it will be much more painless for you.

Also xyxzzz that's the difference between sovereign debt markets, which governments will do anything to placate, and equity markets which they don't really care about crashing as long as its useful.

If the market for UK gilts collapses we've all got bigger problems. But it's proved to be surprisingly resilient given every credit rating downgrade and dire govermnent warning about how we can apparently no longer afford to feed poor people any more.

it's a rare sighting of the lesser spotted lexit (genus larrus el lyot)!!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/22/respect-eu-britain-outside-left-economy

Bit of a callback, but

Even so, what are the chances the vote conclusively backs remain with three choices on the ballot, and does so at 60%? (we all know the other side would want another one if it wasn't conclusive)

I can definitely see Remain getting 60% over No Deal in the second round if May's deal drops out in the first - not so confident if No Deal goes out first.

This would be 60% of the remaining votes though, not total voters - I've no illusions about the fact that a significant percentage of all three sides would view indicating a second preference as diluting their precious democratic fluids powers.

Larry Elliott isn't a moron and has been largely consistent in his line for a few years now, but that article doesn't adequately explain why the EU is to blame for the problem, how it would be better outside, let alone present any actual solutions.

What's the price paid for Draghi's promise and the Greek bailout? The Guardian has been running this pathetic thing on populists this week. How much of a populist are you? LOL, and its the #peoplesvote crowd that are now funding this thrash, keeping that show on the road.

I can't say I appreciate the difference between gilts and sovereign debt markets (I used to promise but I forget rn) - and I bet most MPs don't either. If a Black Wednesday style event were to happen, with the media outcry and hostility...and also for all of you who love the EU, don't think Germany and other EU countries wouldn't join that chorus either. Just get out, this is another show to be kept on the road.

Yeah I mean that example in the article in regards to Italy - well Italy are in the Euro etc. UK have more room for manoeuvre.

Loving the equivalence being drawn, by the Guardian and the BBC et al, between 'left populists' and sundry racists and fascists on the right. That's very useful.

I can definitely see Remain getting 60% over No Deal in the second round if May's deal drops out in the first - not so confident if No Deal goes out first.

Are you telling me there would be two rounds of votes?!

Not sure if it's worth having a vote, sounds like some lol democracy nonsense.

Being blunt: xyzzzz__, do you actually understand how AV works?

XYZZZ I'm not sure you understand the point I'm making - the government is clearly prepared to play fast and loose with the value of the pound and would allow equity markets to plummet if it meant that MPs would be shook enough to vote the deal through. But the markets are going to do that anyway in the event of No Deal, because it's a fucking disaster in the making.

If the government is prepared to be similarly cavalier with the gilts market then they've really and truly lost the plot beyond redemption because they're dependent on it for cash (especially in a crisis) and it makes up the pensions of a lot of ageing Tory voters. It was government debt - not equity markets - that the Greek crisis was predominantly about.

(xpost oh god can we please take the hint and give it up with this fantasy AV referendum talk?)

Just reading about it now *sigh* ok yes, this is used in several countries to elect presidents...the difference is you aren't electing a president with this. There surely would have to be enough of a margin in the last round. xp

Thanks Matt for clarifying on my mistaken equivalence of the current situation with Greece a few years ago.

Loving the equivalence being drawn, by the Guardian and the BBC et al, between 'left populists' and sundry racists and fascists on the right. That's very useful.

It's doubly irritating because the definition of populism they use is an obvious reaction to what this crisis really is - a crisis of institutions. Nearly every institution that people have put their trust in has proven themselves unworthy of that trust over the past decade or so, or prepared to abuse it. Banks, phone hacking media companies, the Catholic church, austerity-pushing supranational bodies, food distribution networks that slip horsemeat into our food etc etc.

Usually the 'solutions' involve replacing one remote elite with another (lol Brexit), but it's natural that snake oil salesmen thrive in this climate of distrust. But handwringing about populism absolves institutions, politicians and policy-makers from having to admit their own culpability in all this, not least what to actually do about it. Conflating, say, Podemos and Orban is part and parcel of that refusal to engage.

xxp Yeah, I agree, that's what I'm saying, I could see that margin in some circumstances.

I might've missed the hint Matt - as I said above, I think you need all three options, and doing them as straight FPTP would be nuts - the delusions on all sides about what people 'really' want is the sort of thing that non-FPTP is there to straighten out.

We need a vote on the mechanism of the actual real vote.

For that one, we should gather all eligible voters in the UK together and have a show of hands. It's the only sensible option.

a vote on the mechanism of the vote without first consulting the public on whether such a vote should take place at all would lack all legitimacy and would wound our ailing democracy so deeply that I fear parliament would have to be closed down forever

uptight and plebiscite

nearly all posts about British politics are improved by appending the hedgesian sign-off

"...which is why I propose to abolish political parties and replace the government with a panel of rational scientists and light entertainers."

that tweet was my first lol of the day!

that account actually helps me remain sane.

simon hedges is the spirit of the age

Please help I'm stuck imagining Robin Ince stamping on a human face forever

seriously, I've never heard a R4 type "funnyman" that isn't short of a good shoeing, but that cunt doubling up with the shit doctor is just the worst thing ever.

Just trolling us:

Reuters report Prime Minister Theresa May will make a statement about Brexit in the House of Commons at 2.30pm

— Sky News Breaking (@SkyNewsBreak) November 22, 2018

seriously, I've never heard a R4 type "funnyman" that isn't short of a good shoeing, but that cunt doubling up with the shit doctor is just the worst thing ever.

― calzino, Thursday, 22 November 2018 11:19 (nineteen minutes ago) Permalink

fp homophobia

homophobia ? how ? I didn't even know he was gay, so definitely not intentional. And he's still a nauseating tosser!

funnyman = derogatory jamaican slang term for gay man. Humour supposed to arise from absurdity and incongruity of thinking you meant the word in that sense. However it failed to arise like a bad soufflé

I just meant bad unfunny comedian. I bow to your superior knowledge of carribean Street slang and wont use that wotd again.

overreaction imo

I didn't mean it with sarcasm!

was posting on the phone and concentrating on not bumping into people at the same time.

Disgusting savage.

I need to stop posting on my phone. I don't read tings properly. lol! oh for an edit ilx button!

Honestly, there was nothing even remotely wrong with describing Robin Ince or any of these schmucks as a "funnyman", the ball just fell to me in the area and I tried to prod it towards the goal

Robin Ince is gay?

well gay

disgusting!

I was busy nutmegging myself, which isn't good when you are a one-legged C Benteke!

That "crisis of institutions" framing is v. good and under-discussed

Viva Espana:

SPAIN WILL VOTE AGAINST CURRENT BREXIT DRAFT PROPOSAL DUE TO LACK OF CLARITY ON GIBRALTAR - SPANISH DIPLOMATIC SOURCE

— Kylie MacLellan (@kyliemaclellan) November 22, 2018

^ this, according to current noises by gov and opposition, is more likely to lead to no Brexit rather than no deal.

pic.twitter.com/JA3EwPvjiF

— daytime snaps (@daytimesnaps) November 22, 2018

then again May will probably go back and work in a fudge with the negotiators for a new draft, and that'll be that

Blobby is smelling blood

Everyone is mocking the Blobby thing, but tell me he couldn’t be AN Other backbencher with these wiki descriptions:

A bulbous pink figure covered with yellow spots, he has a permanent toothy grin and jiggling eyes.

A Sun article published the previous month had reported that Blobby reduced a young girl to tears after throwing her birthday cake onto the floor during a show, causing the girl's father to mount the stage and assault Blobby.[2]

In a 2016 article, Stuart Heritage of The Guardian said that Blobby "became a sensation immediately", but then devolved into a "widely despised irritant".[6]

Mr Blobby and stuff like including beans in a fry is up there on a long list of reasons I will never 100% truly get the Brits.

blobby is a touchstone for how dark things might get

then again May will probably go back and work in a fudge with the negotiators for a new draft, and that'll be that

― glumdalclitch, Thursday, 22 November 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Would be funny if Gibraltar tanked it but yes.