one out all out: a brexit from the modern world and every one of its problems please (we're all gonna die lol)

He's been on a journey. To Mansfield, I think.

With the DUP out and about 20-odd v public Tory NOs, passing it is effectively all down to Labour now. The working assumption that if the deal bill fails they will get an election will surely keep enough of them in line for it not to pass. Xp to TH.

surely many - most? - of those public nos could turn to yeses when the rubber gets within hailing distance of the road?

I know I've said it before, but I don't see a way to have another referendum which doesn't do great harm to our democracy. It's not the fault of anyone but those who called the first referendum, but I can't imagine a way it can happen. What if the pro-brexit boycott it? And what if they feel that there's no point in supporting the current state because they'll be promised something, then have it taken away? There will be a real crisis of legitimacy. I want to stay in, but Cameron stopped that being a possibility.

― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 10:32 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Whatever happens the damage has already been done to democracy, the whole system needs tearing up and starting again. Whichever way this goes the uk looks set to lurch from crisis to crisis until the constitution is redrawn.

Well, drawn.

I do think the system looks irreparably fucked but this is a v conservative country and post-Brexit or whatever unlikely Deus Ex postpones Brexit whoever's clinging on to power is unlikely to be minded to or capable of reforming it.

In the short term, anyway

otm

Harris was on the radio earlier talking how special needs education is all skewed towards helping middle class parents rather than thick working class fuckers who can't read and afford barristers for educational tribunals. He's right to an extent, and I know as a thick illiterate whose been there before and lost! But his tone in an earlier Graun piece this year was so fucking tone-deaf to the breadth of the autism spectrum and also of the discrepancy between what he has experienced in London and what you get in Batley Carr etc.. It's a tough job growing up in public when you are knocking on 50 and a shit hack, and only just reaching basic awareness. But at least he has shifted an few millimetres away from "complete tin-eared cunt". But still one for the list.

EHCP is skewed against anybody who wants the local authority to spend money tbh, it's an intentional feature.

and his take was the middle class ppl are more rugged at dealing with this terrain cos they can read and can afford the legal help etc. Tbh when I lost an educational tribunal, we had free legal help and - but to get the solicitor to turn up at hearing would have costed more money than we had at the time.

There are charities and other voluntaries offering advocacy and support but I'm sure coverage is as patchy as that implies

tbh parents demanding stuff that doesn't ultimately help their child is a problem across the class spectrum anyway. I have first hand observation of spikes in "dyslexia" in educational settings in more affluent areas, spikes so outrageous it'd be funny except sigh this isn't helping anybody

ogmor's right maybe need a separate thread for things that were already fucked pre Brexit

only just learnt the importance of good advice recently when I got in touch with Carers Count and they literally walked my partner through the PIP nightmare. I have to file past mistakes under "things I'd have done differently now" and " I should have known much better" tbh!

Nah we need it all in one thread, it's important to have perspective even if Brexit is taking over everything right now. There's no evidence that politicians are doing anything else at this specific crunch point.

Deems made the right call by siphoning off the more abstract Brexit talk into the other thread.

lol just when you thought there couldn't be a worse UC apologist, Amber Rudd steps the fuck up to the plate: " a tremendous force for good". Still got the non-breakable arrogance and plum in the mouth voice that some people mistake for competence, go kill yourself Amber, seriously.

remove bookmark from thread

ogmore, revive this if you feel the need to: This Just In: Rolling UK News Thread

I can understand that a poster might be sick af of brexit chat but still want to discuss uk news/politics.

Yeah I get that but the UK politics thread has mostly been about other things and it's important to have them in here. Calzino's post just above is a case in point.

sorry, that first online death sentence fatwa of the morning is the always the most pleasant one! The turnover from political disgrace to the DWP is so quick now, but I suppose it is a form of punishment itself because nobody seems to last long.

Plus there’s a good chance that the uk politics thread surpasses the us politics thread recent post count in thanksgiving week.

It is hard to keep up with though, the alternative would be to kill the rolling thread and have separate threads on austerity damage/Labour wranglings, Brexit etc as we need them, like we used to. God knows there's more than enough happening but they'd probably all just cross pollinate in no time.

I wouldn’t want to Balkanise the British politics threads too much, because all the issues (austerity, think tanks, parties, Brexit, economics) are connected and it’s helpful to all to see the joins.

1900+ posts in a month and a half is approaching US levels.

Thankfully we haven't reached that pitch of hysteria yet.

good mourning

wheres the tax returns? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/02/jeremy-corbyn-calls-on-theresa-may-to-publish-full-tax-return

"I wouldn’t want to Balkanise the British politics threads"

ffs! first they take our jobs, then they take our threads!

I've got this all wrong. The time for sober reflection is over. I will up my contributions. However feeble our understanding may be it is surely best if our ignorance is consolidated and fully articulated.

It's quite easy to keep up with a couple of threads, hardly Balkanizing. Sadly I think we need 2nd ref fairytales or lol touching the 'constitution' to give us a break from actual awful things happening.

The time to hesitate is through, no time to wallow in the mire
try now we can only lose, and our no deal brexit become a funeral pyre...

this thread has quite a wide remit and can also function as a (lol I hope they all die) thread.

Following from Tracer's post this deal could be passed. The markets will add to the pressure as well.

Market opinion famously affecting both sides of the house this partic parliament

I'm serious, I can see the plucky indefatigable TMay narrative already configuring itself, can't you guys? Already people are piping up w/ "whatever one thinks of her, I don't know anyone else who could get up each morning and keep going". Heroic stories don't work without a fall from grace, rock bottom etc - it's all set up perfectly for her, narratively speaking.

It would only ever work if you were able to squint around the actual person in the centre of the narrative - "a sense of duty" has devalued considerably in oh exactly the last 100 years.

I definitely think the deal could happen, for sure. Hard to see the numbers working out as it stands, though, especially now Amber Rudd has effectively taken the No Deal threat off the table. So it'd need to be bribery and begging to get it done; neither of which this govt is above.

Some good threads going on Twitter about how the detail in the deal shows that a) May's real and only red line is Freedom of Movement and b) how derelict the FPBE "rerun the vote" lot were in not challenging at all this line that the majority only voted for Brexit to keep the immigrants out. Because now it's fact and all negotiations centre around it.

Thing is, if May is prepared to accept every Labour amendment on the finance bill what else would they be prepared to accept in exchange for their support on the deal? This is a moment of maximum leverage for Labour and they could really humiliate the government in the process.

at least michael gove is working tirelessly behind the scenes

https://t.co/7fj8wCXDRm via @Magiquiz

— Michael Gove (@michaelgove) November 21, 2018

can we now move to the stage where we all die please

Is there a prize bigger than another election for Labour, do you think? Short of May renationalising the railways and NHS.

can we now move to the stage where we all die please

gove first

Update: 78

This is how tough it is for May to get her deal through. She needs an awful lot of these to backtrack on their public statements https://t.co/Oa9kW77qdy

— Alex Wickham (@alexwickham) November 21, 2018

how reliable a source is wickham? he is (a) ex guido and (b) notorious for running long seemingly important buzzfeed stories backed only by anonymous quotes

The jury's still out is the best I can say

I think Tracer's argument that it might pass on a later vote is more pertinent

Not sure how far down the barrel of the gun Tory Remainers actually want to look