one out all out: a brexit from the modern world and every one of its problems please (we're all gonna die lol)

Baroness Bertin was born in '78. So not the youngest peer by some margin.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/18/brexit-delusional-conmen-britain-never-never-land-eu

Good David Edgerton comment piece in today's Observer. He's a bit of a Fred Dibnah type historian and has an obsession with how wartime propaganda and wrong-minded declinism amongst it's chroniclers has caused a distorted view of the economic and military powerhouse the BE was. And he sees the bullshit of "Global Britain" and the "demented revivalism" of the likes of Boris and the Brexit crew as sort of the flipside of this coin.

Seems like a good way of weeding out the Tory disaster capitalists (although I would argue that you merely have to check out a list of ERG Tories) and making sure they were framed that way to the public.

True, although some would say the priority should be averting the disaster itself rather than showing up the disaster capitalists.

To that end, can you even legislate to prevent No Deal? Surely No Deal is something that happens after we hit the deadline whether the UK Parliament likes it or not?

You could perhaps legislate to extend Article 50 (assuming the EU allows that), for a second referendum (which would require the aforementioned extension anyway) or to revoke Article 50 altogether (which may not even be possible). It strikes me that all of these options would suddenly focus the mind of Brexit Tories and lead to the passing of May's deal anyway.

Hague said on Today during the week that he thinks they'll all vote for it, because it's probably the one shot at leaving whether they like the detail of the terms or not.

You need each and every one of them to vote for it and a big enough chunk of Labour rebels to offset the missing DUP votes. That seems like quite a big ask.

To that end a kind of No No Deal legislation or amendment would amount to a massive get-out-of-jail-free card for Labour MPs who would otherwise be labelled wreckers or precipitators of an economic crisis.

I fully expect there to be a decent number of Labour rebels, and I suspect a fair few SNP abstainers. It's one of the reasons I find the calls for a free vote baffling, or rather May's reticence to announce one because I think she's the biggest winner from it.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6401325/Wonga-City-advisers-set-enjoy-4-1m-bonanza-thousands-claimants-lose-out.html

lucrative biz is picking over the bones of a collapsed payday lender, well for all the usual parasitic scumbags of course.

xp I’m not sure how this follows with respect to other parties? A free vote only applies to the Tories; Corbyn has already indicated he’ll whip against it. It means only that if she imposes a three line whip and members of the Cabinet vote against it, she can sack them, rather than being powerless in the face of a big rebellion.

Labour whipping against a free vote is a very bad look for them. The notion of free voting is supposed to be about matters of conscience so adopting a 'we know best' approach would play very badly with the sort of floating voters Labour would need to attract.

I mean, imagine if this government could hold the moral high ground over you?

And regarding the ability to legislate against No Deal via amendment, I think this is possible because it’s not primary legislation (like they couldn’t just slap on an amendment to stop Brexit entirely). Labour has used humble addresses this parliament to get stuff done so I’m sure they know whether this can be done. A humble address can be used to extend A50, I think?

xxp opposing a deal that doesn’t satisfy the six tests is party policy, and given that Brexit is this government’s only policy, why should they offer a free vote? I wouldn’t expect any parties to offer a free vote on this. The deal is already unpopular with voters of all persuasions.

I mean, imagine if this government could hold the moral high ground over you?

I have no idea what this means.

If I hear 'border down the Irish sea' one more time...

Why EU I oughta...

After Amber Rudd resigned she went interraiing for a month - fascinating detail in Mail on Sunday interview today pic.twitter.com/uCCxbI456j

— Jane Merrick (@janemerrick23) November 18, 2018

Aw that’s so cute - love a bit of water carrying from the media!

(Maybe we should have a shit British pundits thread for this sort of nonsense)

Presented with a child born deaf, unable to speak & walk, asked to attend a work capability assessment & faced with losing her home Tory MP Kwasi Kwarteng resorts to sound bites about the benefits of “good & strong economic management” & reducing the deficit! Absolutely shocking! pic.twitter.com/NzYrCyH0VJ

— Peter Stefanovic (@PeterStefanovi2) November 18, 2018

talking of Amber, her bf is a cunt as well.

Standard for the Britannia Unchained crew: https://youtu.be/xK-8n-daMmE

XP don’t know what was worse, Kwasi having an empathy gap or Andrew Marr being all *movingrightalong* as the other guests gaped at Mr Rudd there.

I mean, imagine if this government could hold the moral high ground over you?
I have no idea what this means.

Free votes are normally granted on issues of conscience or where the national interest is so great that it transcends party politics. The topics that have been important enough this century are hunting with dogs, euthanasia, reduction in age of consent, gay marriage, stem cell research and internal issues such as House of Lords reform and MP's pay.

Imagine if this shower of shit thought it was important enough to join that sort of company. Then imagine if you thought your MPs had to be told how to vote on something that crucial.

If the government loses a putative free vote, as still seems likely, none of this moral high ground shit will matter to anyone.

xp Yes, I’m aware of what a free vote is.

Imagine if this shower of shit thought it was important enough to join that sort of company.

Why should May give a free vote so her headbangers can vote for No Deal without facing any consequences for it? Why should she give her frontbenchers an opportunity to keep their jobs while opposing a deal they apparently agreed to and have gone along with thus far? Why should Corbyn allow a free vote when a) the majority of the party is united on voting against this deal and when b) Labour MPs have had no problem breaking whipped votes under his leadership before?

And the idea of the moral high ground is rich for the reasons Matt says as well as the notion that ANYONE beside the Conservative party and its 30 year tantrum over Europe should be taking the blame for this. They will try literally anything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions!

I don't think anybody thinks there should be a free vote apart from the Guardian and sundry FBPE types.

Labour whipping against a free vote is a very bad look for them. The notion of free voting is supposed to be about matters of conscience so adopting a 'we know best' approach would play very badly with the sort of floating voters Labour would need to attract.

It's one of the reasons I find the calls for a free vote baffling, or rather May's reticence to announce one because I think she's the biggest winner from it.

What was this supposed to mean then? In the first you seem to be suggesting Labour should have a free vote, in the second May should have a free vote because it would benefit her in some way?

The first of those was in direct response to your comment that any free vote would be Tory only.

The second is that against the media and FBPE calls it might be worth May considering agreeing with them because imo she'll pick up more votes than she loses.

For the purposes of clarity, I'll repeat my position which you quote above: "I find the calls for a free vote baffling".

Labour whipping against a free vote is a very bad look for them.

I thought a 'free vote' just meant any vote where that particular party's leadership do not whip their MPs to vote a certain way? so you can't whip against a free vote by definition?

(I know that there are particular issues that have traditionally been free votes because they're seen as matters of personal morality or religion, e.g. abortion, so whipping MPs to vote a certain way on a vote of that kind could be seen as "whipping against a free vote", but that doesn't seem to apply here?)

I thought a 'free vote' just meant any vote where that particular party's leadership do not whip their MPs to vote a certain way? so you can't whip against a free vote by definition?

In this scenario the Tories would have the free vote and Labour wouldn't, which would in theory make Labour look bad but probably not in practice due to about a million other things further forward in people's minds right now.

THE PARTY OF FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY

Three unusable water cannon bought by Boris Johnson when he was mayor of London have been sold for scrap, at a net loss of more than £300,000.

Johnson bought the crowd-control vehicles from the German police in 2014, in anticipation of social unrest, without checking whether they could be used on London’s streets. In one of his most humiliating episodes as mayor the then home secretary Theresa May banned them from use anywhere in England and Wales. It left the capital’s taxpayers with three expensive white elephants.

The current mayor, Sadiq Khan, pledged to claw back as much money as possible on the redundant vehicles by selling them. But after almost two years the mayor’s office admitted defeat in its attempt to find a reputable buyer.

It announced on Monday that it has agreed to sell the vehicles for just £11,025 to Reclamations Ollerton, a scrap metal yard in Newark, Nottinghamshire.

The fee recoups 3.4% of the £322,834.71 spent on the vehicles since 2014.

The 25-year-old vehicles cost £85,022 in 2014, but they were found to be riddled with faults and required expensive modification to make them roadworthy. This included £32,000 to comply with the city’s low emission zone, and almost £1,000 on new stereos.

The former London mayor Boris Johnson bought the crowd-control vehicles without checking whether they could be used on the capital’s streets. Photograph: Victoria Jones/PA

Officials had hoped to sell the vehicles for up to £43,000, but despite the improvement work, no buyer could be found.

I guess it was the wrong week to flog them to the saudis, or more likely too old and too tame for them.

can't blow up a school bus full of kids with a water cannon iirc

weren’t allowed to sell them to repressive regimes

Free votes just mean there is no whip applied to the vote itself, so MPs voting against what their party’s official policy is aren’t subject to censure. Most votes in parliament are whipped; unless something big changes I would be surprised to see Corbyn and May not applying the three-line whip to it given it’s such a significant vote.

xxp add that onto the millions wasted on the Garden Bridge already!

Theresa May's spokesman denies the prime minister has suggested that EU citizens have "jumped the queue" to work in the UK. Here's what she said in her speech. pic.twitter.com/t1c6spW2hL

— Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) November 19, 2018

Lovely Commonwealth dogwhistle

Yes, and not a great look considering that she’s meeting the EU this week.

Wait until she finds out who is personally responsible for stopping Indian software engineers getting skilled migration visas.

Notice she said Delhi and not Karachi and Sydney and not Dhaka.

*** BREAKING NEWS ***

David Davis has sent his letter in. I've obtained the first page. pic.twitter.com/xk02IOQFJQ

— General Boles (@GeneralBoles) November 19, 2018

A couple of right-wingers I know were chatting Brexit in the pub today. One said that the thing to be stockpiling is ammo. They're both hunters, so were discussing their guns for a bit. Apparently there will be 'civil war' if 'Brexit doesn't mean Brexit'.

lol, I wonder if the vanguard of the Brexit Civil War troops in Hartlepool have six tests for Brexit meaning Brexit. Does this Brexit eat peanuts and throw it's excrement at ppl!

I’m glad to see that aussies taking our jobs is ok, but Bulgarians are not. I’m sure British business will be a’ok going’s from a system that is essentially free to one that costs thousands of pound.

Meanwhile ScoMo is blowing the ‘fuck off we’re full’ dog whistle pretty hard ride now, so reciprocity doesn’t seem to be on the cards.

A couple of right-wingers I know were chatting Brexit in the pub today. One said that the thing to be stockpiling is ammo. They're both hunters, so were discussing their guns for a bit. Apparently there will be 'civil war' if 'Brexit doesn't mean Brexit'.

― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Monday, 19 November 2018 15:05 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbh I'd encourage mass suicide by cop, egg them on

Looks like the confidence & supply arrangement is dead - DUP are abstaining on budget votes today.

Further to our Claire Perry discussions, she’s just been accused of bullying civil servants and members of staff.

have read a possible way out, which I'm skeptical of because i think referendums bring out the evil spirits: require a "ratification referendum" on the withdrawal agreement, where the choice is not between WA and no deal, but between WA and remain. this would require extension of A50 but EU would be happy to in this case as both options are acceptable to them. and because it's a referendum, "not delivering brexit" gets defused as an issue because the public had their say. like i said, not sure I'm convinced but it's the only option I've heard so far that feels even vaguely plausible.

if there was a referendum with May's deal or remain as the only options wouldn't it just be boycotted by a large % of the population (with the support of prominent media outlets, MPs etc), leaving us in even more of a mess than we are now regarding legitimacy, 'will of the people' etc?

lol, DUP spokesman was just making me laugh when asked if they will have to pay back some of the £2 bn confidence + supply fee and says: well, if they want to escalate the situation..

s

s

they are so brazen, it does get pretty lol