The Sopranos Vs. The Wire

The Sopranos like Mad Men has an amazing core group of brilliantly casted actors and sometimes the going gets a bit muddy when it strays too far from them, but what quality they are! The Wire on the other hand contains many gratuitous scenes of posh but dim useless twat Dominic West allegedly acting, and he is arguably one of the main players of the core group that makes that most of that series :(

yeah dominic west v jimmy gandolfini as series leads (yes i know mcnulty is hardly in a whole season), i know who I'm picking

as well claim anthony jr as a series lead ffs

oh yeah, lol! Like as if Dominic West isn't in a lot of The Wire. just this minor background character, gtfo!

as if anthony jr isnt in a lot of the sopranos!

which one of these useless cunts is quadruply bad: posh as fuck, overexposed, overrated and adult aged at the time and still stealing a living though?

both of them apparently!

Dominic West is def a worse actor than any of the Sopranos leads (quantify that however you like - Tony, Carmela, Chrissie, Livia, Paulie, Melfi, Junior, Janice, Silvio, Meadow, and yes even AJ), how is this a question

but then the Wire is not really interested in actors or even characters - it's about the overarching design, the SYSTEM man

I have already made these arguments on this thread but... y'kow

it was also not interested in doing anything remotely engaging formally, from a stylistic or technical point of view. I can't think of a single shot that made me sit up and take notice of the technical audacity on display the way the Sopranos did, repeatedly, where I'd just think "jesus christ that was an ingeniously composed and shot scene"

I mean, the camera panning up and from Silvio stalking Adriana and into the trees, all after the initial "fantasy escape" sequence alone

panning up and away

but then the Wire is not really interested in actors or even characters - it's about the overarching design, the SYSTEM man

I have already made these arguments on this thread but... y'kow

"The Wire is not interested in characters" is completely OFFtm!!

pfft so many of the lead roles are thinly drawn caricatures. Macnulty is such a dumb cop show stereotype, for ex. Slimy mayor is slimy. Monstrous amoral superpredator crack dealer etc

no Sopranos actor/character is as bad as fucking Ziggy who is nigh unwatchable

If I had to single out one reason why I'd pick The Sopranos, it would be the quality of the writing. The characters in The Wire tended to speak according to type--cop-speak, dealer-speak, etc. You could argue that this added realism, and you could also argue that with everyone in The Sopranos it was wiseguy patter. Myself, I found the dialogue more mannered on The Wire (for the most part--again, I liked the show a lot, and sometimes the writing was great), more surprising on The Sopranos.

the kids in season 4 are probably the best set of characters/actors in the Wire

don't get me started on how lame a character Omar is - a super-powered gay black "noble criminal" gimme a fuckin break, he never comes close to feeling like a real person

bad takes coming hard and fast damn

I can't think of a single shot that made me sit up and take notice of the technical audacity on display

danielsandpearlmansoftcorehumpfest.gif

The Sopranos meandered somewhat, but it always felt really powerful and frightening, there was inevitably something shocking and unexpected around the corner. I had such a hard time with that Adriana scene that I had to stop watching if for a while

my hottest take re: the Sopranos is that it got better in just about every sense as it went along. The first two seasons have some creaky moments and dodgy aesthetic choices (like the disastrous mashup soundtrack cue in the s2 premiere)

Zombie Nancy Marchand was the most cringe-inducingly inept moment in any of these shows. I mean, I get it, desperate times, but still. There had to have been a more elegant way to deal with her death.

Sopranos is the better show, I just like The Wire more, maybe because of its sometimes thinly drawn characters, and how it could descend gleefully into pulp for stretches. Ultimately though I think it had as much to say as the Sopranos and I preferred its less self consciously "important" approach

it was also not interested in doing anything remotely engaging formally, from a stylistic or technical point of view. I can't think of a single shot that made me sit up and take notice of the technical audacity on display the way the Sopranos did, repeatedly, where I'd just think "jesus christ that was an ingeniously composed and shot scene"

― Οὖτις, 15. november 2018 01:25 (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is so so wrong. The cinema verité style of The Wire was perhaps unshowy, but was a fully formed and engaging aesthetic. The Sopranos is mostly shot like a middling indie-flick.

the wrongness just passed critical mass tbh

the ensemble performances in the wire far surpass the ensemble in the sopranos, who are carried by a few great turns in major roles

you cant write off wire actors/characters as sketches and in the same breath laud such grand guignol as pretty much everyone in the closer crew and certainly 90% of those beyond, thats just nonsense

hypercriticising the wire as systemic and using that as a stick to beat cast and characters with is also nonsense imo. they worked within the world far more consistently than the sopranos which shoved characters and events around like a comic book at times.

and gtfo with yr palette.

The Sopranos is def. the more ~filmic~, aesthetically sophisticated of the two. Got weirder, dug deeper into character, continually surprised.

The Wire was (old hat here I know, ~Dickensian~ etc.) classical. Lot of well worn archetypes and motifs but applied in such an impressively orchestrated micro-to-macro clockwork way. I mean, yeah, it’s ultimately about “the system, man” but that’s got fucking legs.

As time’s passed, feel like we’ve seen and will continue to see things that are sophisticated in the way The Sopranos is. Nothing’s really doing or even trying to do what The Wire did though. I see it being the one getting more space in TV STUDIES in 2050 or whatever.

that seems otm

right- deadwood

Hey guys, how about that Homicide, does that belong here or what

I mean it's kind of the Wire but it also arguably hits all the marks that some people itt believe are missing from the Wire.

the wire's visual style is unassuming but often imo quite expressive and painterly in composition, lighting, positioning of characters against architecture (apropos). took a lot of stills last time i watched seasons 2 and 3; here's a jumbled pile i liked from a twelve-episode stretch:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/bfpco2.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/nwMdzf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x01-Time-After-Time-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00001.jpghttp://oi67.tinypic.com/35hmj9i.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/ci0hQL/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x09-Slapstick-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00013.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/j22Jzf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x09-Slapstick-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00008.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/giyrKf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x10-Reformation-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00011.jpghttp://oi67.tinypic.com/5alyl5.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/mcxkef/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x11-Middle-Ground-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00001.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/bQKWKf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x11-Middle-Ground-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00022.jpghttp://oi68.tinypic.com/jkzrky.jpg

half of them seem to have disappeared, prob just as well

http://image.ibb.co/eQxJzf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x02-All-Due-Respect-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00016.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/j3VGkL/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x03-Dead-Soldiers-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00019.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/j53rKf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x03-Dead-Soldiers-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00035.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/gum0C0/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x04-Hamsterdam-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00023.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/mdULC0/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x06-Homecoming-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00013.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/mCf5ef/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x07-Back-Burners-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00005.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/fuMBKf/vlcsnap-The-Wire-03x08-Moral-Midgetry-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00003.jpghttp://image.ibb.co/ht1YX0/vlcsnap-The-Wire-02x11-Bad-Dreams-DVDrip-x264-Li-ME-mkv-00021.jpghttp://oi66.tinypic.com/2nvw67o.jpghttp://oi65.tinypic.com/15ei99g.jpg

style in the wire - https://vimeo.com/39768998

One of the best things I learned from Mark Cousin's History of Film was Lars von Trier talking about how much he learned from Homicide. And when you know, it's obvious, the way his new style is first tried out in the work-place drama styled Riget, before he moves on to the melodramas that gave him his breakthrough. Homicide is important, period. But The Wire is kinda the climax of that style that goes from Hill Street Blues/St Elsewhere/Homicide/Oz. In a way, The Wire can be seen as a work-place drama on a large scale, without self-contained episodes and with the goal of turning an entire city into the workplace under consideration. Homicide is probably more visually interesting than The Wire, it really goes for that grimy digital cinema verité look, where The Wire scaled it a bit back and tried to be more distant and composed. But this style has kinda completely disappeared, nobody other than David Simon are doing these pseudo-documentary ensemble shows anymore. Right? It was taken over by ER style action or Grey's Anatomy style melodrama.

Yeah, The Wire really needs to look exactly like it looks. Natural and unassuming. Easy to overlook the artistry there.

Also my bit up there giving props to The Wire primarily as a Grand Statement still sells it short. As well as The Sopranos handled character, by the end I was maybe a little OK with most of them just being wiped the fuck out. I don’t think that’s necessarily an artistic failure, but it doesn’t leave me with much.

There’s gotta be a dozen or more characters in The Wire that totally wrecked me in some way or another and I still randomly think about them years later.

How is there not a gif of Tony Soprano’s “I can’t have this conversation again”

i thought of this thread because of all the media coverage of 'the sopranos' for its 20th anniversary & it got me thinking about how strongly ilx of 10 years ago preferred 'the wire'. kinda curious to me that the media of today & ppl who came to the shows post-broadcast seem to overwhelming prefer the sopranos to the wire. it also feels like the sopranos influence is still majorly felt in current tv whereas no one has really tried to replicate the earnest social sweep of the wire except maybe david simon himself.

props to this guy tho for being so prescient:

i'm w slocki and i think history will be on his side as well

― t_g, Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:25 PM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sopranos is probably more rewatchable, not sure if that makes it better but it stands to reason that’s part of what makes it a more popular choice in the netflix era

there was a cbs community-policing police procedural w/ richard price on it but it was cancelled really fast. i thought it had potential to do that social-sweep thing within the parameters of network programming.

sopranos had a 'premise' (mobster in therapy, showing home life, etc.), which is true of lots/most of pre-sopranos tv as well as post-. they could practically have had a voiceover in the title sequence, like on the a-team or something, to explain it anew every week.

maybe I need to see it again but I’m not sure I agree with that last paragraph, as a show portraying both a relatable reality and an alien world the sopranos was unique I thought

and it was definitely the progenitor of all prestige cable shows

don't think I would choose The Wire over The Sopranos, but for me The Wire + Treme + Show Me a Hero + The Deuce together make a greater achievement

i suppose that's probably right about the sopranos, especially given the established conventions for crime/gangster dramas. i just meant that it technically satisfied a parameter for show design that lesser shows are more apt to satisfy in ways that ask for more of a concession from the viewers e.g. bryan cranston the science teacher druglord. sopranos was able to locate a real sweet spot in that regard; its contrivance was easily naturalized within the narrative, even left behind (? i forget, it's been a while).

in that respect i think there are some prestige cable shows that are more akin to like usa-style 'blue skies' quality dramas than is generally recognized. like 'suits', episodic but continuous narrative and stylized but tv-realistic - except they gotta have the young guy mike have a photographic memory to get the basic plot going (he's not a lawyer, he works as one tho once his mentor/boss takes a shine to him), and then constantly recur to that / jeopardize the ongoing narrative with threats of revelation of his secret.

History has proven me right on this.

def

sopranos is so easy to dip into rewatching

sopranos v easily the best show of all time, zero competition

Yup

The Sopranos, even at its worst - and there were lots of dreary filler episodes and sketchy characters dragged out too long at times (obv more so in the latter seasons) - still burned more brightly than The Wire. When the The Wire took a bad turn you'd get bored to death for the rest of the season, whereas The Sopranos might be shit for an ep or two, but then make up for it with 3 or 4 killer eps in a row. The stench of David Simon is one of the worst things ever imo, I can't watch any of his shite without groaning every two minutes.

the wire and homicide are 2 of the best tv shows ever. they're just not as good as the best tv show ever