Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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I went to White Hart Lane on Saturday (as a neutral pretending to be a Spurs fan) and Spurs could easily have scored eight. I can't see Everton getting anywhere near the Champions League if they carry on like that.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Any significance to the fact that the first initials of the top five Premier League clubs in table order today spell CAMEL?

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Spurs could easily have scored eight

Well, they had eight shots on target if the BBC stats are correct. So, Wright did OK considering the shambles going on in front of him. I saw the highlights and, yes, Spurs were rampant.

I think the presumption is we that can't be that fragile again, but we can and we will as injuries accumulate. I wonder about the wisdom of spending two-thirds of our apparent transfer budget on a talented but inconsistent big-name striker with a sub-1-in-3 goalscoring record.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably not. (xpost)

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

How can anyone choose Everton over Villa? No sense of glamour, some people. Still, it might have upset the delicate balance of mercurial South American loonies at Villa Park.

I once saw an article about James Beattie and he was a robot in the pictures, you could see his wires and stuff. I think he was jumping over rooftops too.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Hot off the rumour mill: Gravesen to Real Madrid.
Logical extension: Owen to Everton.

No, I don't believe it either.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe half of it, PJM. Unfortunately.

It increasingly looks as if TG isn't going anywhere near a new EFC contract so the question is - get £2m for him now off Real or let him go for free in July. £2m = about four Premiership places, I think. TG = probably the difference between top four/six and top half or Europe and no Europe.

I see Super Kev left for WBA last week. Walter Smith's Small Number Of Good Ideas will soon be history.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

But will TG be tempted by the much-discussed fourth place striker's spot at Madrid? It looks to me like another example of Madrid and Barcelona's habit of hoovering up anyone else's promising players and then turning them to mush. I suppose other carrots will be dangled.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Gravesen the Galactico seems likely alright.

Just reading this morning Henchoz is on his way out, to Celtic or Rangers, supposedly. He's really deteriorated so much, though obviously Liverpool need a new central defender and have done for some time. Be interesting to see how Pellegrino does.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

pellegrino:liverpool::laurent blanc:man united?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, he's certainly not a striker. I don't know enough about Madrid's squad to know where he'd fit in. That he's not cup-tied is his major appeal to the Euro giants, I think - good cover for the first XI. This is the first season where's he played with any consistency for Everton; to see someone so relishing their every outing in a Royal Blue shirt while simultaneously not even considering extending the engagement just depresses me a bit. He's even got the accent now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I've already thought of that Kilian, but nah, surely not!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Gravesen to Real = the end for Beckham?

This is not a sentence I ever expected to write in my life, it must be said, much as like Gravesen. I also apologise to Mike for tempting fate with my last comment in this thread, as well as "Kevin Kilbane - Galactico!" during the summer.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

gravesen isn't a striker, MJ otm. he actually would have a good chance of making regular starts for madrid, they never filled the tough-tackling ball-winning midfielder void left when makelele departed. they usually play beckham and guti in the centre - neither of whom win much ball - and personally i feel beckham isn't suited to the position at all (the occasional delightful sprayed pass to the flanks aside). becks should move back to a london club and start playing on the right wing again - gravesen can take over the central midfield spot at real. zidane and figo usually play in the wider midfield positions. celades is the other central midfielder at real, who's slightly more physical than becks and guti, but gravesen should have no problems easing ahead of him in the pecking order.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt: you can get Zinedine Kilbane T-shirts from the EFC shop, y'know.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought he was a striker all along.

Now I look like a girl.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to leave Everton right now.

Does he play 'in the hole' then?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.squarefootball.net/content/article/article.asp?aid=1531

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Carsley plays in 'the hole' (4-1-4-1 more than 4-4-1-1), Gravesen is effectively the reincarnation of Peter Reid.

Perhaps if I wrote him a nice letter he'd stay?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, write him a letter. I might too. 'You are a great striker.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/g/gravesen_41516.stm

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I have just read an interview with DAVE BOYLE in WSC.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

BBC website says a deal has been agreed for Gravesen. So, we're down £4.4m this month, gained an inconsistent, unfit striker and lost our playmaker. Season over. This is like selling Peter Reid in January 1984 and signing, I dunno, Luther Blissett.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Sivebaek [the agent] added: "Thomas was very happy at Everton, but when Real Madrid want to sign you, you cannot say no."

Agents, eh?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

You CAN say no, you can say, "Actually, I enjoy the challenge of helping a club with a small squad and comparatively meagre resources return to something approaching their former glories, through hard work and team spirit; I enjoy the company of my teammates, I have immense respect for my manager, I have a great rapport with the fans, I earn a lot of money already and I'm not likely to lose my international place by staying here; going and becoming a benchwarmer at the most successful side in European club football in the knowledge that even I may be surplus to requirements come the summer so profligate are the management doesn't appeal very much. Thank you and good night."

He could've said that.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Here it is in foreign:
http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2005/01/13/futbol/1105651019.html
Nothing new, except they claim it might be Beckham who is relegated to the bench, rather than poxy old Guti. Also, they spell Wanderley 'Vanderlei' or something.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

beckham will be gone come summer, i have no doubt. it will be a london club. what odds beckham to spurs? can they afford it?

i am going off topic here, unfortunately.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Sadly, I get the feeling Vanderlei Luxinterior might sort Real Madrid out a bit, sort of like the Capello months. I hope I'm wrong.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I am very proud of the interview; it's the best thing done on us for a long time.

Mike OTM - lure of Real Madrid is cockrot; they were shit until 1999, had two good seasons, and have been living off the petrol fumes of hype after the gasoline of 'being good' disappearred (see 'Manchester United')

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm ill at home and bored, and have their cup game with Valladolid on the TV. They are playing reserves and youngsters, much like the huge English clubs in the League Cup. The team includes Michael Owen.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't quite see where Beckham could go if he was to return to the Premiership. Has he lost his lustre enough for Chelsea not to even consider him? I'm fairly sure Arsenal couldn't afford him, wouldn't want him and I doubt he'd want to go there. Spurs is a possibility if there's European football involved, but Frank Arnesen probably has his eye on some Dutch wonderkid available at a fraction of the price.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

My tip would be Middlesbrough though, if he wants to move there. I presume relations between Beckham and Steve McLaren are good.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I would be proud too, about that interview.

Beckham > Japan, Qatar, Bolton, Boro, Rangers, somewhere like that. Also I suppose there will be a new round of millionaires wanting to make a mark.

Chileswatchers! It's time for 'Working Lunch'.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get the reference to 'Z-Cars' in the original question.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It's our theme, PJM. It's an arrangement of an old Liverpool folk song called "Johnny Todd." When the Blues took the field against Villa last February (my first trip to Goodison in a decade) I'm not ashamed to admit hearing the tune made...something fly into my eye.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

why hasn't anybody mentioned that grav is a tad more of an attacking player than makalele? surely, grav is a thug, but what he really wants is to do his long shifts and nice assists. he's a bit like the gangsta who really just wants to read books.

― Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Khm, excuse me but - unless samthung flew in my eye at some crucial postpoint - there's no mention of the Morientes move to L'pool, on this thread so far, or is there?
He'll be a strikeforce to reckon with, for Everton or whoever, surely.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm hearing the Human League version of 'Get Carter'. Am I close?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/tv/titles/zcars.shtml

― Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm also hearing the theme from 'Some Mothers Do Have 'Em'. I suppose anything Ronnie Hazelhurst would do.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't got Real Player. Perhaps we could whistle it today. Double the nostalgia.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Get real!

― Mooro (Mooro), Saturday, 15 January 2005 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool vanquished 1-0 by lowly Burnley.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

Difficult to argue with today's result (except on moral grounds, obviously) - L'pool dominant for 45 minutes and but for Milan's comedy finishing it would've been something of a hiding well before the Cahill scorcher and frenzied climax. I think I celebrated Pistone's long-overdue withdrawal almost as much the goal. Still puzzling over the mere three mins of injury time (and the fact that Dudek's time-wasting in that injury time was apparently only worth a further two seconds). I fancied us for a (probably undeserved) equaliser if we'd had the luxury of a 95th minute against the 9.5 men.

It hurts but not as much as two seasons ago (when a one-point advantage turned into a two-point deficit on Easter Saturday and we knew all was lost). I even exchanged texts with Jerry, instead of chucking myself under a 63 bus.

This might not really change things. The Olympiakos, Arsenal and Leverkusen victories didn't spark the classy surge Rednoses expected and I doubt this will (in fact, Bolton could take a point - or more - from Anfield in a fortnight) and I don't think Everton will simply dissolve into the pack either. I'm taking comfort from the memory of the 86-87 run-in when Liverpool 'had to win' the Anfield derby - they did but promptly lost at Coventry a week later, effectively ending their title challenge.

To play:
EFC (51pts, +3gd) - Palace, B'ham, Man U and Newcastle at home, West Brom, Arsenal, Fulham and Bolton away.
LFC (47pts, +12gd) - Bolton, Spurs, Boro and Villa at home, Palace, Man C, Portsmouth and Arsenal away.

Place your bets.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Very hard to call. Thought we were good today, but as you say wouldn't be overly optimistic about Bolton (or any other game).

Probably Nunez's best game to date, thought Smicer was really awful and gave away the ball an awful lot, he's so weak! Thought Pellegrino was good today actually, which is unusual. Baros was great if he could just score. Very good match but god do we always make it hard for ourselves.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 20 March 2005 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Impossible to call.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 20 March 2005 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Without the "big three", best odds:

Everton 4/6
Liverpool 11/8
Bolton 7/1
Charlton 40/1
Middlesbrough 40/1
Newcastle United 50/1
Tottenham Hotspur 66/1

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 20 March 2005 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i hope bolton finish 4th

charlton fucked up in the most unbelievable fashion yesterday. they should look at themselves in the mirror. and say the word cunt.

― chorleylido (gareth), Monday, 21 March 2005 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

It would be extraordinary if Bolton finished 4th after that run of consecutive defeats earlier in the season. How many was it - six? Seven?

Having hung round a couple of grubby online footy forums yesterday, trying to find a Blue-friendly London pub in which to watch the derby (something JtN seemed to find by accident), I treated myself to a skim through the whole four-year span of this thread late last night - it really cheered me up. Even 'crap bunglers that are ultra boring to watch' doesn't sting like it did.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 21 March 2005 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

A league in which Bolton could become entrants in Europe'a premier competition says at lot about the Premiership doesn't it? To be hoenst, given that Everton haven't had much form since Gravesen left, their continued presence in 4th is surprising too.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 21 March 2005 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool have the advantage because they get to play Villa, whereas Everton have to face the resurgent West Brom.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:23 (twenty-one years ago)

But Liverpool have about four players left.

We should be celebrating the fact that Everton and Bolton could qualify for the Champions League, not deriding it. Greece won Euro2004!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 21 March 2005 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

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