Friend Infected With Right Wing Brain Worms - What to Do?

Apparently my cousin has disengaged from social media as its getting him too agitated. He's definitely become very radicalized by it (I wouldn't say its changed his personality, but its definitely honed it), but I'm fairly surprised this has happened. The daily existential battle against the enemy has taken a toll. He's not changing his views at all, but hopefully this can at least help him calm down a bit (the levels of angst caused by the most innocuous of things was sobering. the last one was something to do with "you cant say Man Sized Tissues anymore")

as always, you can still say "man-sized tissues", it just prompts people to go o_O for some reason

i've had a good friend get into Joe Rogan lately. as if that wasn't enough, apparently Joe Rogan convinced him to start wandering around the woods of suburban San Diego looking for mushrooms to hunt. the mushroom hunting I actually think is kinda cool, and I joined him for some of that last week (we found nothing), but I just don't like that it was Joe Rogan that convinced him to take it up through the teevee.

mushroom hunting is way too cool for joe rogan to ruin it

"is it still cool after joe rogan does it" is a pretty decent litmus test, actually, kind of a Great Filter for possible things to do

this quote from the Red Scare profile was being discussed on the chapo thread

It seems increasingly likely that the rising generation is more likely to turn conservative not because they want to be rich, but because they want to be mean.

this seems partially true, but I think being on the left also offers you plenty of scope for being mean, if maybe more restrictions on who you can be mean to and how? idk, meanness seems key to understanding so much of online politics somehow, it's the engine that it all runs on

I was thinking about this tweet:

consistently across all contexts the core underlying philosophical position of the intellectual dark web is that its members should not be made fun of pic.twitter.com/pU5RjfGoVk

— Max Read (@max_read) October 25, 2018

you could rephrase "its members should not be made fun of" as "no-one is allowed to me mean to us" - and this is definitely true, but it's equally as true of a significant chunk of social justice-y twitter as it is of the intellectual dark web? something about the way that very online politics involves lots of arguing with your opponents on twitter or wherever, and this encourages people to be defensive and build up preemptive defenses that make any criticism of their position illegitimate by definition, and this ends up shaping the positions of political movements themselves

xpost Perhaps we just need to provide them with many object lessons in that old 'don't mistake kindness for weakness' saw.

Nah, neither #MeToo nor #BlackLivesMatter was about 'being mean', and those two are by far the most important leftist hashtags.

A friend of mine briefly switched to an all-meat diet. He denied emulating Jordan Peterson, perhaps because he assumed I'd be less likely to dismiss his lifestyle as a result. He appears to have given up on it in the interim (I wonder why?), though he's still alt-righty when it comes to certain specific topics and unapologetically liberal when it comes to others, which is a fairly banal phenomenon come to think of it. For instance, he has no problem pulling the MRA card when women are involved and freely trades in ethnic stereotypes but will take advantage of every opportunity to tackle anti-Asian American racism because it concerns him directly. His misogyny and anti-racism are intertwined, in fact, as he feels like women (including Asian women) are less attracted to him because of his race. When I tell him that while it is indeed demonstrably harder out there for Asian men on the Western dating scene, his attitude towards women might be part of the problem, he doesn't pay me any heed (he's also not a bad looking guy, incidentally). As expected, he strongly dislikes it when I bring up his economic privilege (upper-upper middle class, as it were) and will occasionally revel in it as a corrective to recurring episodes of guilt. I still very much value him as a friend, but it's hard, perhaps even impossible to positively navigate these issues.

It seems increasingly likely that the rising generation is more likely to turn conservative not because they want to be rich, but because they want to be mean

I assumed this was actually about Chapo / Red Scare.

xpost, “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” -atwood

gotta love those dutiful libertarians, searching for alternate explanations to the official explanation that hasn't even been fucking provided yet.

but yeah, we should conjure up conspiracy theories and reverse engineer them to see if they are plausible. hey, it gave us Christianity.

this seems partially true, but I think being on the left also offers you plenty of scope for being mean, if maybe more restrictions on who you can be mean to and how? idk, meanness seems key to understanding so much of online politics somehow, it's the engine that it all runs on

― soref

the more radical one is the less conciliatory or "nice" one can effectively be. cruelty is a dangerous thing, and given a couple years it could consume much of the online left and become an end to itself, but there still remains a sense of purpose beyond cruelty for its own sake on the left. no such mediating structure appears to exist on the right. also, i'd argue that a lot of internet cruelty is motivated less by political goals and more by the medium of the internet being inherently cruel.

It seems increasingly likely that the rising generation is more likely to turn conservative not because they want to be rich, but because they want to be mean.

I thought this was a given, and a central part of alt-right thinking (and quite probably true of regular conservatism before that too, depending how you define it). You could easily replace the word "Globalist" with "Capitalist" and not notice any difference, in most contexts. "Becoming" rich doesn't seem part of any of this at all! Already being rich, sure. But economic stuff doesn't feature very highly. See it clearly in UK also, the brexit footsoldiers have no interest in the economy. That stuff is tossed aside in an instant when it suits - its some combination of nihilism and belief in hierarchy. The idea of 'getting rich' doesn't even come into it

Why isn't suicide preferable to living like that, is what I've been asking myself forever.

Like what even gets you out of bed when you're a shambling, joyless spite mummy.

The hope that your spite will destroy others and the jouissance derived from that hope.

I guess I can identify with the meanies of the world bc I wish ppl wld keep their cluelessness to themselves

the brexit footsoldiers have no interest in the economy. That stuff is tossed aside in an instant when it suits

funny that these people (or other annoying rightwingers with some overlap, anyway) spent decades saying voting Labour was reckless because the economy and we shouldn't have any kind of social safety net because it costs too much and now it's all, "Remoaners always just think about money, there are more important things, like ~sovereignty~" (whatever that means, something about not hearing Polish on the bus?)

also maybe not the same people any more but "we mustn't tax big business or they'll just leave the country" -> "who cares that businesses are leaving the country"

mind you I would also agree with both "banks and big business don't care about people and should be made to pay something back to the community and not destroy the planet" and with "...but we still need them and it's bad that the government is ignoring them over Brexit", so yeah, I'm sure they'd find that just as funny and illogical, and... maybe it is

(I guess I do have some caveats about still needing them only in the current universe and basically all foreseeable near-future universes, if that helps)

PS "shambling joyless spite mummy" <- this is p. much me in most human interactions, I fear; I do have trouble getting out of bed some mornings, but I do it to hear good music and in the hope of e.g. seeing a pink sunset or a heron on the way home and other solitary, misanthropic delights

some of these people I can't imagine having any corresponding little flashes of joy, but maybe there's something that does it except the Schadenfreude and the believed superiority, I don't know

my alternative to being consumed by hatred for certain people is practicing an utter lack of curiosity towards them. it's natural to have questions about people unlike you, questions like "what motivates them? how do they feel?" i don't care about the answers to these questions. the problems they present are insoluble by me, insoluble by anyone outside themselves, and thus i feel protective detachment is the best option.

You could easily replace the word "Globalist" with "Capitalist" and not notice any difference, in most contexts.

― anvil

Antisemitism is popular everywhere!!

The only people i absolutely hate are the super rich and violent. Like who could possibly waste time and energy on hating other groups.

lickspittles for the super rich and the violent tho

some inchoate thoughts about this lately and the role of group violence in post-colonial culture. something along the lines of violence being the structuring force and desire line of modernity. it's only real symbolically (even though it really effects the deaths of thousands of people every day) and there are two sides to it: a libidinal, group-binding thing and a practical, keep neo-liberal realpolitik fed thing. it's driven by desire but highly regulated. you aren't supposed to have direct access to it; mediated access is what's allowed, but that simply keeps the desire hot. everyone including liberals pay fealty to it but their ideal interface allows them a smooth existence in spite of it (they lean towards denying or repressing the group-binding element, or enacting the violence from within the structures and hierarchies of capitalist exploitation). conservatives are repulsed and infuriated by this repression of liberalism. in some instances there is an impulse to override the capitalist structure which could even be seen as progressive if it were turned toward ending violence, but the goal is to resurrect violence as a libidinal pleasure and try to enact it in a more authentic fashion, that's the appeal of neo-fascism, but they can't access a "deeper" more "authentic" violence because it's already been given legitimacy only when it's carried out as globalist, market-sustaining extinguishment of people who matter the least on that scale.

also like there's a moral imperative against violence of any kind in liberal culture that isn't coherent at all when you realize that sanctioned violence is more prevalent than ever, and the atomization of its causes is even somewhat driven by the puritanism of the no-violence commandment. the appeal of conservativism is it puts the violence front-and-center and puts it in an old-fashioned frame, where ironically it ends up being useless to society at large except as another way to keep groups of people from directing their ire at what's legitimately a moral wrong in society, the ruling class hierarchy and all of the tools it uses to sustain itself.

For clarification I hate ultra- rich, violent people not rich or violent people. Which I think you touch on above about capitalist exploitation.

I just permanently disassociated myself from some of the RWNJs in my family. My cousin, who is of my generation and with whom I spent a lot of time growing up, posted a dumb Facebook meme from -- :::rolleyes::: -- Turning Point USA, and all I did was correct a few of the facts that were very obviously wrong. I didn't expect to change her mind about anything, and she made it clear that I wouldn't; I just said I was a big believer in facts. Her son chimed in with a meme of Trump in a soldier's uniform (oh the irony) reading "How about rooting for America once, you liberal scumbag?" to which she replied "That's my boy!" I replied one last time and said, "I just achieved a moment of realization -- I don't have to have anything to do with you people just because we happen to be related and once got along. Have a nice life!" It's a very freeing feeling.

The aforementioned son, by the way, is a racist piece of shit who brandishes a Confederate flag (in Ohio ffs, we have relatives in our family true who fought for the Union in the WV infantry and were prisoners of war) who -- and I'm sure this is ENTIRELY UNRELATED -- is starting at the police academy this month.

Yeah, one of my brothers was a cop for 20 years, barely passed HS, did a ton of steroids, cheated on every gf before finally getting married. I never felt like that was a loss in not speaking to him when I barely spoke to him growing up anyway. People don't deserve an audience for their cruelty, no matter how passive or joking it may be.

Ugh, today in the pub there were a couple of guys chatting to the staff about how 'you can't even say snowman anymore!'.

why can't you say snowman?

global warming

'Snowman' was banned around the same time as Christmas iirc.

xxxp I have no doubt this second cousin of mine expects there to be a class at the academy called "How to shoot African-Americans for fun and profit."

Ugh, today in the pub there were a couple of guys chatting to the staff about how 'you can't even say snowman anymore!'.

did you give them all the clues

I'd presume that notion is based on the apocryphal "race board" holding an important meeting about stopping people from saying the word Snowman. Which is obv a dual white supremacy/western christianity symbol that is oddly made out of snowflakes, which are lefty libs in disguise!

nah, it's supposed to be "snowperson"

Just 'person', really.

I know this because my Indian mother-in-law forwarded an offensive Australian whatsapp meme that contained this very "joke" to my wife a few weeks ago

i'm still furious about all those SJW's swaying Lucas to call them "Sand People" and not "Sand Men"

I can't even find the Bitches & Hoes section of my local DIY store these days.

This is an interesting article by a woman who went to high school with someone I'm not familiar with, but who is apparently a fairly prominent alt-right/neo-Nazi spokesmodel. Sort of a "how did my friend go insane?" piece.

I got through most of that but she doesn't seem like much of a mystery really - a sociopath with daddy issues

reminds me of this twitter thread by someone who went to school with Lena Epstein, the now-defeated candidate who invited a messianic jew to speak following the recent synagogue shooting

This ad with my name on is going out in today's metro-Detroit Jewish News. We include Dems, libertarians, even an aide to a GOP rep. I wanted to explain why we purchased it, why most of us who grew up with @LenaEpstein are strongly urging voters to choose anyone else. pic.twitter.com/EmclPCkTQN

— Seth M. Fisher (@Misopogon) November 1, 2018

My extremely pro-brexit cousin now thinks that there may be some 'short term' economic issues, and maybe a recession but

a) This can lead to a short period of 'crisis capitalism', which is good because thats when disruption occurs
b) The EU is going to fall apart anyway

The second seems a more typical run of the mill viewpoint, its not enough for us to get our thing, our enemy must also suffer in some ways or the victory is hollow. The first feels out of the remit of this thread. Really doesn't sound like the language of the brainworm infected footsoldier at all! More the language of the infector than the infected! Though in some ways it reflects it. He, as one of the 'good ones', believes he will not suffer any of the ill effects. Its a change though, from 'there will be no ill effects' to 'there may be some ill effects but in fact this is actually good'

sounds like he's ready for you to cut him off for his own good and bring about the hallowed disrupting time

The EU is going to fall apart anyway....and the UK will rise like a phoenix from the ashes

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/i-gathered-stories-of-people-transformed-by-fox-news.html

That article is really something. All these Fox News orphans.

I called my mother two weeks ago and funerals, wills, things like that came up. She was very upset that I have absolutely no intention of returning for anyone's funeral. I People are alive now; any sentiments or changes can be made now. When you're dead, who cares.