Burn, Nic Cage, Burn!

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Neil Labute is usually great.

HAHANO.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:49 (nineteen years ago)

And faux-celtic paganism in America is all too cute and new-agey.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:49 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.columbia.edu/~rlb7/jpegs/serpent.jpg

― Machibuse '80 (ex machina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:50 (nineteen years ago)

I suppose so, but it's... a story. There are no pagan communities living off the West Coast of Scotland either for that matter. And I don't think wicker men were really ever used for human sacrifice either.

I dunno. It just seems a silly reason to object to a horror film, that it's unrealistic or something.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:50 (nineteen years ago)

the fact is paganism has much deeper cultural resonance in a European context than in an American one.

wicker men were used for all kinds of sacrifices, including human, at least according to "The Golden Bough". And there have been all kinds of pagan communities in Scotland throughout history (regardless of whether there's any there NOW, surely you can see how their previous actual existence would be relevant/lend weight to a horror story?!)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

think about it, what makes a scarier plot device: a creepy group of people with ties to ancient and mysterious powers/rituals, or a creepy group of people with ties to a pop-culture phenomenon stretching back less than 30 years.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:55 (nineteen years ago)

they downplay the actual paganist rituals in the new version that were so detailed in the original. here, the only thing the film needs you to know about these women is that they're all witches
The film's dedicated to late musician Johnny Ramone, who introduced Nicolas Cage to Robin Hardy's original film.

when the credits came up on the words 'dedicated to Johnny Ramone', right the big ending, well... we were just... we didn't know anything anymore

― milton parker (Jon L), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

right _after_ the big ending, etc.

― milton parker (Jon L), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:58 (nineteen years ago)

Shirley Jackson's short story the Lottery is a perfect example of how this kind of story does work in an american context. It's quite famous, a town draw a lottery once a year and the loser is stoned to death. Settler communities of pilgrims are easy to imagine falling into savagery of the sort that is in the original film. "That first winter was hard, we had to eat the children" style.

See also Stephen King.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

according to wikipedia, Julius Caesar was the first to note the druids' use of wicker men for human sacrifice.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:00 (nineteen years ago)

haha of course the Lottery works so well because its explicitly about PURITANISM aka one of the most American things there is. As opposed to new age women and honeybees which is... well, I don't know what it is.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:02 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think The Golden Bough is very reliable. Anyways, Mark Kermode (who tends to be a bit of a nerd about such things) and err.. wikipedia, yes say the evidence for them ever being used for human sacrifice is somewhat sketchy.

Anyway, yes, I realise I'm being a bit awkward, but the point is yes in an obvious sense The Wicker Man obviously fits better in a British context, but y'know, art doesn't always work best by following the rules of obvious fit.

I fully expect The Wicker Man (2006) to be a load of toss, based on what I've heard and seen here and elsewhere, but to make such assumptions simply on the basis of where it's set... no.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:04 (nineteen years ago)

Full disclaimer: I think The Wicker Man (1973) is mostly a load of toss too, at least when it come to the end being supposedly scary (and I scare easily). It's like Carry On Sacrificing!

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:07 (nineteen years ago)

Well, it was a Hammer film. So IOW, a B movie, but much
better than your average B movie.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

I know it's explicitly about Puritanism, but that can frighten in the same way that paganism does in that it inhabits our imagination as a lost and cultish society, uncivilised in a sense, foreign but staining the soil we thread on.
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow plays on these themes as well. The film is less about paganism per se than something as driven as that, isolated and festering. It's nearly like the past reaching from the ground and terrorising us.
Another film I'd draw in is Breaking the Waves, which is also set on Scotland's west coast and also has small isolated communities (this time the damnation is of the soul and the cult is Presbyterianism) that do outlandish things. If the film isn't so explicitly about Paganism as is being suggested than it's not really all that important a ground to criticise on.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

Puritanism gets a bad rap. The puritans were tops at producing
hardworking farmers and tenacious warriors, the most valuable resources for any budding society.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

TS:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000068IET.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
VS.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009PY3X.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 01:58 (nineteen years ago)

pretty much. this country was founded by Puritans you know. There is no history of paganism in the US like there is in Europe. the closest we come is highly diluted rituals/motifs imported from Africa and the Caribbean.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 5th, 2006.

that is the most brainless thing you'ever written

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:39 (nineteen years ago)

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/466237/2/istockphoto_466237_ancient_spirits_totem_pole_1.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:42 (nineteen years ago)

Hello? Hello! Anybody home? We've been talking strictly about WHITE paganism for this whole thread. I think that's perfectly clear from the context of the discussion (the american remake of _The Wicker Man_).

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:58 (nineteen years ago)

Although I have to say, northwestern totemic art can be quite creepy and alien. I'd love to see it exploited in a horror movie, maybe a family of Russian missionaries gets kidnapped in the 1880's? Too unPC to fly, though.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 03:00 (nineteen years ago)

Interesting review by a modern pagan with a good understanding of the history of the film here: http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usma&c=media&id=11130

― spectra (spectra), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 04:04 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't seen the remake (or any of the director's previous films) but it sounds like the bee thing is used in as a misogynistic analogy - female domination

― spectra (spectra), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 04:10 (nineteen years ago)

A lot of what goes on in the original Wicker Man is alive and kicking in the Basque Country, such as the hobby horse man. So it's far-fecthed, but not too far-fetched. I will look for evidence.

I liked Nurse Betty very much for some reason.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:12 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, it was good.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:18 (nineteen years ago)

It would have been improved by having Greg Kinnear burned alive in a big wicker man at the end though.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:22 (nineteen years ago)

Or Roy Kinnear, one of the two.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:23 (nineteen years ago)

Begira!

http://www.buber.net/Basque/PhotoAlbum/index.php?spgmGal=Events/Others&spgmPic=0&spgmFilters=t

http://www.buber.net/Basque/PhotoAlbum/index.php?spgmGal=Events/Others&spgmPic=1&spgmFilters=t

You is up early, Nick.

I rthought you meant Roy Kinnear first time. What wouldn't be improved by Roy Kinnear though?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:24 (nineteen years ago)

Is that you in any of the pictures, Peter?

I'm up early to have some stiches taken out and collect an LP from the sorting office before I go to work, which would be improved by Roy Kinnear.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:27 (nineteen years ago)

was the pagan content of this:

1) better
2) worse
3) the same as, only, like, more

the wicca/goth chicks in Blair Witch 2: Book of Shadows?

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:29 (nineteen years ago)

The sword thing:

http://static.flickr.com/68/162207274_8bb7d5f28e_m.jpg

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:42 (nineteen years ago)

Pretty picture:

http://static.flickr.com/57/170515397_b86b080bd3_m.jpg

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:43 (nineteen years ago)

y'know, i was sorta not beliving the "nicky coppola punches chicks" thing posted above, but the onion av club says:

Lacking the religious conflict to give his story a focus, writer-director LaBute coats the proceedings in his usual dreary misogyny, recasting Summerisle as a colony of evil, manipulative shrews. But even the spectacle of Cage running around the island punching women full in the face and screaming "Bitches!" isn't as problematic as Wicker Man's gigantic plot holes, interminable empty dialogue, cheap shocks, and uneven stabs at tension.

― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 07:54 (nineteen years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/91/235850371_bac4e24b2c_o.jpg

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:21 (nineteen years ago)

incidentally the johnny ramone thing was kinda the best punchline ever. i finally lost it at that point and totally cracked up.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

LAFF A MINUTE ROMP. In flashbacks every 10 minutes, a little girl gets hit by a truck repeatedly. Nic Cage punches a bitch to steal her bear costume, and then punches many more bitches while wearing that bear costume. Ellen Burstyn wears Braveheart make-up. Molly Parker is foxy and beguiling in a totally stupid way; Nic Cage steals her bike at gunpoint anyway. Leelee Sobieski has a little red mouth that does all her acting for her, and in the final scene begins to seduce James Franco, setting up what is sure to be WICKER MAN 2: THE WICKERING.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

how bout those blind twins

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:35 (nineteen years ago)

I wanted this to be a Ghost Rider thread.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

I hafta go see this drunk. This is becoming increasingly clear.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:40 (nineteen years ago)

have fun watching a boring movie drunk!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

Whoa shakey's nonsensical posts make me want to LIKE this movie.

― Allyzay is cool: with Blue n White, with Eli Manning, with NY Giants (allyzay), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

Also: still dying over concept of Nick Cage running around in a bear costume punching ladies and screaming "BITCHES"

― Allyzay is cool: with Blue n White, with Eli Manning, with NY Giants (allyzay), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

That sounds like the basis for an Aqua Teen full-length.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

I watched Final Destination 2 in a similar state. You need a big group of loser friends, some of whom may vomit in the theatre and ideally it ought to be Valentines Day!

Life's never boring when you're drunk.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but the final destination movies are awesome!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

You say my problem is I don't remember...

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

You *see my problem is...

answers on a postcard

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

I'm kind of happy to hear this is awful. A mediocre remake is the ultimate insult.

Sounds like it has the makings of a good drinking game, though. Cage furrows brow, take a drink. Cage hits a chick, take a drink.

― Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

should be done in the theatre though.

Also stripping ought to be involved somehow, as in all good things in life.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

*drink every time there is a bee onscreen (this will keep you chugging)
*drink every time Cage says "I'm a police officer" or similar
*drink every time Cage says "A little girl is missing" or similar
*drink every time little girl is hit by truck
*two drinks every time blind crone twins appear
*finish drink every time Cage punches a bitch

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

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