It would only be correct if there were a hyphen between drinking and den, imo.
― Alba, Sunday, 9 September 2018 15:34 (five years ago) link
Oh, and breakfast and bar too.
sorting out how to properly hyphenate that lengthy series of modifiers is reason enough not to try it tbh
― rob, Sunday, 9 September 2018 15:37 (five years ago) link
Or just drop the hyphens altogether. Xpost
― Alba, Sunday, 9 September 2018 15:39 (five years ago) link
In this case, cum is used as an unassimilated latin word rather than an English one (as in summa cum laude) and it means "with". I wonder whether the drinking den really is attached to the bar as a separate entity, or if author is just cheerfully misusing the word to mean "that might also be regarded as a".
that is a correct usage afaik
It is normal for a sentence to have a verb. Although, it is possible that where rushomancy called it a sentence and inserted a period it would have been more accurate to call it a phrase and inserted an ellipses.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 9 September 2018 18:31 (five years ago) link
ellipsis, ellipses is plural
― mark s, Sunday, 9 September 2018 18:54 (five years ago) link
you're right.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 9 September 2018 19:08 (five years ago) link
as for the phrase at issue, i would rewrite, because i don't think the unwritten linkage in the phrases "breakfast bar" and "drinking den" -- while it's certainly there, which is why they don't absolutely demand hyphenation -- us strong enough to override the written linkage of the hyphens round cum: the problem isn't that you can't decode it on reread, it's that you stumble (and chuckle if you have an evil mind) on first read
hyphenating everything puts all the linkages at the exact same level, which doesn't get rid of the hiccup no hyphens is asking for dirty-mind trouble
"drinking den and/or breakfast bar" works i think (certainly it dodges the slight weirdness that Aimless is noting, that "cum" is arguably slightly misused here? and also the "he said cum teehee" thing)
― mark s, Sunday, 9 September 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
us s/b is
stylish North Williams breakfast-and-drinking bar
― mick signals, Sunday, 9 September 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
doesn't really even need the hyphens
― mark s, Sunday, 9 September 2018 19:41 (five years ago) link
^true. use hyphens to eliminate ambiguity, which you're not really in danger of here.
― rob, Sunday, 9 September 2018 19:53 (five years ago) link
i don't mean it as a technical grammar question. maybe i should have put it in "Words, usages, and phrases that annoy the shit out of you". the writer drops in a particularly unnecessary loanword in a context where one can't help but read it as the identical vernacular word.
― milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Sunday, 9 September 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
Big style book changes at @nytimes: Since yesterday, we've dropped the courtesy titles – "Mr. Whatsisname", "Ms. So-and-So" – for stories about movies, pop music and TV 😱— Matthew Anderson (@MattAndersonNYT) October 9, 2018
rip mr. loaf, mr. pop
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 19:43 (five years ago) link
hullo gaga, bostic, elllington
doctor sir warrior would be concerned if (a) not dead (b) ever once mentioned in the times anyway
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 19:46 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/ZZPl6u1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/c2yC8gD.jpg
guardian 1, bbc nil
― mookieproof, Friday, 30 November 2018 13:54 (five years ago) link
seen on my Waitrose voucher"this does not include infant formulae"
there are many types of formula I guess, but there are also many types of, say, milk and it would be weird to pluralise to 'milks'?
― kinder, Saturday, 15 December 2018 23:44 (five years ago) link
Yeah that's definitely wrong
― the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Saturday, 15 December 2018 23:50 (five years ago) link
That is not ungrammatical, strictly speaking, but is certainly a strange choice of expression. Also, when pluralizing Latin words that have been assimilated into daily English use, it is preferable to use the English form of plural, viz. formulas.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 16 December 2018 00:35 (five years ago) link
not sure “formula” needs pluralizing
― k3vin k., Sunday, 16 December 2018 00:57 (five years ago) link
it doesn't, and in terms of style, it oughtn't.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 16 December 2018 01:02 (five years ago) link
I quite agree with Aimles. I often want to stop people from pluralizing loanwords according to the pluralizing conventions of the source language. Especially when they are wrong. But people mistakenly think they're being scrupulously correct, which is sad. Pedants have misled them.
I dislike "syllabi," "octopi," "memoranda," and (perhaps especially) "matrices."
― Anne Frankenstein (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 16 December 2018 04:31 (five years ago) link
"octopi" is wrong anyway, even with the Greek origin it's "octopodes"But with the voucher text, you wouldn't have a problem with "does not include fruits and vegetables" right?
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Sunday, 16 December 2018 05:48 (five years ago) link
I dislike "syllabi," "octopi," "memoranda," and (perhaps especially) "matrices."Syllabi and memoranda are way more elegant than buses and dums. Octopuses also sounds terrible, imo octopi is the correct English plural and octopodes is an also-fun technically-correct plural. Matrices is elegant, but matrixes is simple and clear, I’d allow them both.I also strongly endorse one Aimles, two Aimless.
― sans lep (sic), Sunday, 16 December 2018 06:48 (five years ago) link
But with the voucher text, you wouldn't have a problem with "does not include fruits and vegetables" right?
actually I'd go with "fruit" for that as well, fruit being a mass noun
― the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Sunday, 16 December 2018 07:29 (five years ago) link
I don't mind Latin plurals - it was only recently my workplace style guide stopped using 'data' as strictly plural, and not without some mutterings - but I don't expect to see it on a supermarket voucher so it kind of made me smile
― kinder, Sunday, 16 December 2018 08:49 (five years ago) link
it's good, english needs more inflective noun endings, it's a mongrel language and shd flaunt this
a pod of octopus is an octoplural, this is obvious and transcends rules or style
― mark s, Sunday, 16 December 2018 10:35 (five years ago) link
I also strongly endorse one Aimles, two Aimless.
As Aimless, I contain multitudes.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 16 December 2018 20:23 (five years ago) link
What the heck is a “breakfast bar” anyway?
― calstars, Sunday, 16 December 2018 21:31 (five years ago) link
The "breakfast bar" was named via analogy to the "salad bar" and consists of a variety of foods commonly eaten at breakfast, made available for one to serve to oneself.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 16 December 2018 21:35 (five years ago) link
Ok, I’d call it a breakfast buffet. Bbbbbut how can a breakfast bar also be a drinking den? One is a collection of foods or a piece of equipment, the other is a type of room.
― calstars, Sunday, 16 December 2018 21:52 (five years ago) link
breakfast bar = a variety of syrups, preserves, multiple meats, a protective sneeze guard
― j., Sunday, 16 December 2018 22:01 (five years ago) link
a breakfast bar is a long shallow shelf section you sit at in a domestic kitchen, typically on a stool
― gabbnebulous (darraghmac), Sunday, 16 December 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
at this rate, it will also qualify as a laxative, an epithet, and a cosmology
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 16 December 2018 22:44 (five years ago) link
shitting the bar high there
― gabbnebulous (darraghmac), Sunday, 16 December 2018 22:54 (five years ago) link
http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/medias/sys_master/root/h99/h34/8837336432670.jpg
― Pierrot with a thousand farces (wins), Monday, 17 December 2018 06:35 (five years ago) link
(Aimless ticks 'laxative' off his list.)
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 17 December 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link
lol
― Pierrot with a thousand farces (wins), Monday, 17 December 2018 19:00 (five years ago) link
It’s also, of course, the place you pregame before moving on to the breakfast club
― Pierrot with a thousand farces (wins), Monday, 17 December 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
unlike others itt i have a bit of a prejudice against nu classical or inflected endings. often seem to originate from a position of wanting to be more academically *correct* than the next person so The ECB today announced that it has appointed temporary administrators at Banca Carige, the most current Italian banking conundrum in a long and growing list of Italian banking conundra.immediate response:NOnext response: is conundrum even latin?action: go to OED: Etymology: Origin lost: in 1645 (sense 3) referred to as an Oxford term; possibly originating in some university joke, or as a parody of some Latin term of the schools, which would agree with its unfixed form in 17–18th cent. It is doubtful whether Nash's use (sense 1) is the original.... †1. Applied abusively to a person. (? Pedant, crotchet-monger, or ninny.) Obsolete.1596 T. Nashe Haue with you to Saffron-Walden sig. V4v So will I..driue him [sc. Gabriel Harvey] to confesse himselfe a Conundrum, who now thinks he hath learning inough to proue the saluation of Lucifer....†3. A pun or word-play depending on similarity of sound in words of different meaning. Obsolete.1645 Kingdom's Weekly Post 16 Dec. 76 This is the man who would have his device alwayes in his sermons, which in Oxford they then called conundrums. For an instance..Now all House is turned into an Alehouse, and a pair of dice is made a Paradice, was it thus in the days of Noah? Ah no!all in various ways amusing or ironic considering the context. final response: actually if this is a joke or parody latin word it is *far more legit* to use “conundra” as in the spirit of the original thingfinal final response: still absurd.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 3 January 2019 05:52 (five years ago) link
so many conundrae in those etymologia
― sans lep (sic), Thursday, 3 January 2019 06:28 (five years ago) link
FP
― Fizzles, Thursday, 3 January 2019 08:28 (five years ago) link
the original meaning is clearly describing the median ilx posterwe pompous panjandrums
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 3 January 2019 08:34 (five years ago) link
crotchet-mongers all.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 3 January 2019 09:01 (five years ago) link
often seem to originate from a position of wanting to be more academically *correct* than the next person please don’t describe my life without my permission
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Thursday, 3 January 2019 11:20 (five years ago) link
So will I..driue u to confesse urselfe a Conundrum, who now thinks he hath learning inough to proue the saluation of Lucifer.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 3 January 2019 11:23 (five years ago) link
oh leaue av
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 January 2019 12:29 (five years ago) link
ap style guide . . . welcome to the resistance
SPLIT FORMS: In many cases, splitting the infinitive or compound forms of a verb is necessary to convey meaning and make a sentence easy to read. Such constructions are acceptable. For example: Those who lie are often found out. How has your health been? The budget was tentatively approved. Let readability and comprehension be your guide.
― mookieproof, Friday, 29 March 2019 18:35 (five years ago) link
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
― Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Friday, 29 March 2019 21:36 (five years ago) link
i've begun leaving off full stops in my work emails sometimes, even to important people. i do capitalise though. what does this mean??
― Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 April 2019 21:05 (five years ago) link