that thing white ppl do when they disparage 'white ppl'

Turks are white, by the way.

― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:02 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

All Turks are white ? Idk how Turks are “racially constructed” by fred but I was making an assumption fred was because bringing up the Ottoman Empire in this context bc I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how the ottoman empire’s existence would bear any relevance or undermine any arguments made about a global white supremacy

really? i thought you were good on that kind of thing

I apologize for not being articulate or as patient as tsrobodo, I would hope my position (which mirrors D-40 and tsrobodo, I think) has been stated fairly clearly - that racial hierarchy based on the darkness of skin color (primarily, but among other racially identified physical characteristics) is the primary underlying model for racial dynamics and identity, globally, and that this predates the African slave trade and is much more pervasive and not particularly unique to America.

many xps

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 16:01 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw sorry if the uh spirited nature of the discourse has gone beyond standard jostling towards ya

white said fred

I'm not one for namecalling generally.

you guys go ahead tho

you seem a qualified candidate to speak for all racism everywhere and i bow to you on the matter

― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:06 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I’ve never claimed to do this you snide provincial moron

agreed. this thread was quite civil for a long time.

xpost

provincial
prəˈvɪnʃ(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
of or concerning a province of a country or empire.

shit sorry everyone

white said fred

wow another dig about my countrys occupied status

lads

right lads dinner

no spuds fwiw

But maaam

Glad i could inadvertently contribute to a continued european ignorance of racism by making it uncool to suggest maybe irish-English conflict does not invalidate the notion of global white supremacy

do we have to keep putting coins in you for more?

Lol, this really helping to dispel people's negative stereotypes of Americans.

You spent half the thread conflating discrimination and racism you have no grounds on which to pretend at condescension

Like literally a third of your contributions we’re arguing that discrimination facing european immigrants in America was racism, a nonsense argument that completely misunderstands the meaning of the words you’re using.

The fact that somehow my contributions to this thread are somehow scoffed at more than Tom d or Fernando’s says a lot more about your political perspectives than my rhetorical ones, or my apparent inability to persuade

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac) wrote this on thread that thing white ppl do when they disparage 'white ppl' on board I Love Everything on 08-Aug-2018

xp i speak good english though

nice jibe in a thread where you consistently belittle amongst other things my nations conversion to that language by an oppressor state over the past three hundred years

fancy making a famine swipe while yer at it

ftr d40:

this was clearly marked as for and aimed at outic and was quite unfair of me rly (but that said, reverting to grammar policing is inexcusable!)

i do think that regardless of your incorrectly-donned annoyance at feeling this was unfairly thrown yr way your response since has been pretty typically lamentable tbh

I don't think I've called anyone a provincial moron etc?

In fact, I haven't really said that much at all?

Idc if you think I’m “lamentable” rhetorically I think your entire pov in this thread is lamentable ideologically

nice jibe in a thread where you consistently belittle amongst other things my nations conversion to that language by an oppressor state over the past three hundred years

I never said anything even remotely resembling this

xp

And I like how I’m now being painted as the one calling Europeans “provincial” I used that word specially because 90% of this thread was accusing *americans* of having a provincial approach to race

Mischaracterising arguments which were detailed at the time having tried to "win" the thread via angry ranting, random insults, and a couple of minor but deliberate jibes about whatever country is not a strategy that makes me think "yes, let's discuss this again"

xp yeah i said it was unfair it was poor stuff tbh mea culpa

Like it’s a purposeful flip of the terms on which the “American” pov has been characterized

And I like how I’m now being painted as the one calling Europeans “provincial” I used that word specially because 90% of this thread was accusing *americans* of having a provincial approach to race

"Americans get discriminated against too!"

Mischaracterising arguments which were detailed at the time having tried to "win" the thread via angry ranting, random insults, and a couple of minor but deliberate jibes about whatever country is not a strategy that makes me think "yes, let's discuss this again"

― FernandoHierro, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:35 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That’s good because I’ve never asked you to discuss anything

Didn’t tsrobodo say he’s not American? Interesting how his perspective was lumped into that divide

fwiw the "Americans are obsessed with race" thing feels like a cliche along the lines of "Americans are all stupid" - a thing a small number of Europeans say, but calling people a dumb fuck or provincial is still different from that to me

I was called a dumb fuck by an American—isn’t that a kind of racism, when you think about it

You called the other Irish guy a dumb fuck actually, not me

it may be a small minority of people who say 'americans are all obsessed with race', but it's pretty over-represented in this thread if so. weird considering euros love to vote for/against like wolf stormbringer of the blood and soil party every few years in increasingly close elections.

'Europeans'.

Competitive defence of a continent is not something I'm interested in to be honest

Wite ppl got
No reason to

Not sure how anyone could think the continent that birthed the nazi party in our grandparents lifetime might still have lingering issues with race

afaict this whole argument boils down to certain Europeans being offended by the suggestion that a matrix of white supremacy underlies (or intersects with or overlaps with) ethnic divisions within Europe. Which has a certain irony to it given the historical prevalence of white people reinforcing white supremacist structures by denying that they exist at all, or apply to them directly. A cruder way of putting this would be pointing out that the flashpoint for the conflict itt was the intimation that the Irish bore some connection to blackness in their centuries-long conflict with the English, and how irritated certain people got about that.

You're so far off the mark there it's remarkable!

That doesn't really characterise it for me - not at all. I just think given the thread title it was worth exploring the fact that white people can be minorities that are discriminated against and the circumstances in which that happens. Again, not as an attempt to minimise any other experiences but to broaden understanding if anything.

I don't resist the idea that as a white person I benefit from and reinforce white supremacy.

D40's post about the Irish in England just seemed presumptuous to me, deeply, and spurious. I wasn't offended by it I just read it as a huge assumption based on very little.

The jibes of the last 40 posts aside I've nothing against him as a poster and was trying to defuse things a bit by now.

I would be happy if we could be civil and also if we don't make this some kind of battle about which continent is less racist or something. That feels like the worst road we could possible have gone down.

possibly*

Could an element of 'the problem' with this be that certain Americans who are usually the first to admit their country has terrible problems with racism suddenly get very defensive when it's suggested that perhaps this issue (if not its underlying causes!) is currently managed a bit better in other places? Not saying that this is definitely the case, but it would explain a lot.

(xp) the Irish/ blackness thing was ridiculous though.

Xp Oh God this is going to get me heavily flagged, even though I have just been basically called a nazi for being from Europe.

gerry_adams_django_tweet.jpg

You're so far off the mark there it's remarkable!

Nice that the thread is now just a big pile of white people disparaging each other. And everyone is annoyed! Great validation for poll result nice work all round