Katrina's aftermath

if you're unemployed or semi-employed and have to choose between getting an oil change or feeding your kids, you're gonna ride the bus.

i didn't make that comparision. also, note that Manhattan varies in scale and landscape from New Orleans by a bit...

across the 5 bouroughs?

LOOK OUT STATEN ISLAND! THEY COMING FOR YOU, TOO!

I would believe that some do...but that the majority of people that stayed in New Orleans were there because of that reason? No. I don't buy that one bit. The percentage of people who stayed in New Orleans, from what I've read, was lower than that of the percentage of people who stayed in Gulfport or Biloxi (which neared 40%).

In a city? I call bullshit. The only people living completely off the grid in this country (at least the vast majority of them) are doing so in highly rural areas, and even they have communication equipment of some kind. The number of people without a transistor radio in the US is in the fractions of 1 percent, and somewhere around 95% of all households own a TV. If these people are taking a bus to work, they're going to hear the call for evacuation from the Emergency Preparedness System that, in the state of Louisiana, like ALL states, has to provide information regarding evacuation once such an order is issued, somewhere, at some time. I wouldn't be surprised to know that there were cops driving down the street telling people to leave their homes either, and giving people information to go to the Superdome or elsewhere, especially since BUSES were set up to bring people there.

aaron brown is an embarrassment. he sounded like he wanted to go kill looters himself. (jeezus, enough with the fucking looters. on the one hand, an entire city is submerged in water, on the other hand, black kids stealing sneakers from water-logged stores in their completely destroyed city and how we can best deal with them, hmmm, let's run with the lack of jail-space angle.)

keep in mind that the poorest non-homeless people in nyc are still better off than poor people in most other places. there are many reasons why this is true but the point is that it's true. the first time i saw very poor areas outside of greater nyc i was amazed because i'd never seen that kind of financial rock-bottom on such a large scale. and i grew up in the old, scary, pre-giuliani new york.

Fine then. Pick any city in the US. Any city. Hell, what about Detroit? Its the poorest city in America, according to a poll that just got released. Would you expect a similar portion of the city to stay put in the case of a dirty bomb attack, or do you think you'd see what was seen today (people just walking or riding bikes to try and reach safety) much faster in the process?

Yes. Yes, I do. You cannot use the "well, I would've" in this case.

What percentage do you think didn't get any info whatsoever? I'm serious. I want to know what you think it was. Are you honestly going to tell me that even 10% of the city somehow didn't know from police, news reports, newspapers, etc that there was a possibly catastrophic event going to happen? How do you know that? What evidence do you have? That people didn't leave? The only event that people *will* (and by this, I mean 98% of the populace) leave for, immediately, and probably in a very disorderly fashion, is a nuclear one.

People will stay through storms, and New Orleans doesn't seem to be statistically higher in the percentage of citizens/tourists that stayed compared to any other city in history when faced with a hurricane with possibly disasterous conequences in the US.* In fact, it seems to be lower. This would indicate to me that the populace probably had a better idea than most do of the destructive tendencies of the storm and got the hell out of Dodge. And those who didn't have a proper vehicle to then are stealing them or walking out today.

(for comparison, lets assume that the 1 million that the mayor of New Orleans claimed fled the city is correct. that means that 76% of the city evacuated completely from New Orleans. on the other hand, Hurricane Hugo (http://www.emforum.org/vlibrary/lc000913.htm) only saw 59% of the population leave the city of Charleston, which is where the eye came ashore)

What percentage of the population of New Orleans doesn't own a vehicle? Let's all guess. Because I'm sure this figure is online, and I can find it.

I'm betting 7-8%.

Eat shit, Bill.

Well Fed Media Pigs Call It "Looting"

Steven Black

Scores of articles and news reports have described the survival efforts of those stranded in New Orleans as "looting". Calls have gone out to have the National Guard drop its efforts to save lives and focus more energy on "stopping" those savage people carrying diapers, packages of dried noodles, and first aide kits from trying to survive. Under martial law, such efforts would amount to "assassinate first, drag the body away later" tactics. That our media considers the survival of the defenseless during an unprecedented disaster less important than propagandizing about the rights of private property owners who have fled for their own survival is stark evidence of the depravity of our times. The cries and moans of Fox News personnel over those "stolen" diapers far exceeds their voiced concern over the lives of the brown and black people sloshing their way through a growing lake of rancid floating bodies.

Personally, I'd like to see Bill O'Reilly sloshing his way through the chemical stew, dragging himself passed the decaying bodies, telling his own children, "Sorry, even though my wallet if full of cash, I can't feed you today because the owners of the store have fled and no one is there to accept my payment for food. You'll just have to die, my children."

Anyone who would not steal food to save their family or themselves when no other option is available is a criminal. Anyone who would not smash the windows of a pharmacy when that was the only way to obtain life save medicine during a disaster is unworthy of life. Any society that worships the property rights of a diaper owner over the well being of a diaperless child can eat shit.

http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/08/3831.php

I'm not saying more could have been done in this case on such short notice (though maybe it could have), I'm saying that being poor and not having the full information that we had several days ago were contributing factors to many people not getting the hell out. Would those who stayed actually stayed if they really understood the flooding/levee breaks were possible?

Newspapers, radio, and TV are nearly universal, however, even in a poor place like New Orleans. New Orleans, as poor as it was, wasn't the third world, where the majority lived in tar paper shacks with no electricity. Even if you believe the numbers were off, and say that, perhaps, an equivalent percentage of people in New Orleans stayed to Charleston (a more affluent and educated city), that would mean that half a million people stayed. No one estimates that half a million people stayed.

Hugo, btw, is a great hurricane for comparison: it was a Category 4 in 1989, hitting a big city dead on with the expectation that it would wash most of it away in a huge storm surge. Yes, there was no bowl effect like in New Orleans, but that would help explain why so many more people left New Orleans.

>I'm not saying more could have been done in this case on such short notice (though maybe it could have), I'm saying that being poor and not having the full information that we had several days ago were contributing factors to many people not getting the hell out. Would those who stayed actually stayed if they really understood the flooding/levee breaks were possible?<

I want to know how you know that even a small percentage of those who stayed knew that the possibilty of levee breaks existed. Because I sure as hell don't see any figures.

Its a super outdated GIF from a report made of 1992 statistics. Shows that at least 86% of the city used a private automobile for transportation (either their own or in carpool), and a further 2% or so used a motorcycle or bike. Even then, it doesn't explain 20%+ of the city staying behind or in their own homes.

That's been a great mystery. I know one jail had its inmates put out on a highway onramp during the hurricane. There were rumors of rioting at other jails. God knows what's happening to the mentally ill. Probably nothing positive.

-- vahid (vfoz...), September 1st, 2005. (vahid) (later)

A large part of Manhattan was at least ordered evacuated on 9/11, although I don't know how fully they followed through on the order. I don't remember what street it was, but everything below 14th or whatever (I really don't remember what street it was at all) was supposed to be evacuated. I remember watching the news out here & hearing it being reported on TV and trying to explain to a friend who had never been to NYC what a large section of the city was being covered by that.

Surrounded by prison guards, yeah. I saw overhead video of it earlier, and I'm sure there's pictures floating around the web somewhere.

some people actually are looting. the article maria quoted makes everyone out to be a saint. i don't think very many media figures are criticizing the people taking the diapers and food -- yes, it's survival. but people are stealing big-ticket stuff too, and often just for the sake of stealing it and being all noize and shit. if i were a news producer, i wouldn't make the story a top priority, but why shouldn't we be a little insensitive to assholes making off with widescreen tvs while all this is going on?

everyone in lower manhattan was ordered to cross the bridges into brooklyn. if you're young and are wearing comfortable shoes, it's not such a long walk to get from 14th street to the brooklyn ends of any of the three bridges down there. but since the subways were out on 9/11, it was extremely difficult for people who didn't live in the downtown brooklyn or williamsburg areas to get back to their respective parts of brooklyn (which is a big borough).

Today was a little different, but yesterday, I had a Nawlins refugee call me from north Arkansas where he was on his way to Branson, Mo. for a hotel room. He had originally fled to Jackson, Miss., but they had lost power. He hadn't seen any pictures of his hometown since the hurricane hit.

I told him that it was very bad and to prepare himself for the worst thing possible once he turned that hotel television on. He seemed ready.

Here's how some of the Orleans Parish incarcerated spent the day:
ihttp://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.ladp15209010103.hurricane_katrina_ladp153.jpg http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.ladp15209010103.hurricane_katrina_ladp152.jpg

it most ceertainly does. it says 18% of households were without a vehicle. and more than 25% did not use their own vehicle to go to work.

i don't have NoLA data, but 1999 figures show Louisiana as having fewer licensed drivers per 1,000 residents than any state other than three with large low-income populations well-served by mass transit - NY, CA and MD

also, they took hostages at one of the prisons.

ihttp://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050901/i/r1098074633.jpg?x=346&y=345 ihttp://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050831/i/r433368013.jpg?x=380&y=342

Well, if there are 78,000 people on the ground in New Orleans, say, and the population is 1.7 Million, a little simple math says that's roughly 4.5%, which is a perfectly believeable number of people who have no access/poor acccess to media, are ivnvalid/sick and/or are stupid. So I call bullshit on you. Happy summertime nigga!

no, it shows that 86% rode in a vehicle to work. or did you think there was full employment?

ihttp://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.ladp13809010012.hurricane_katrina_ladp138

Even with the 18% of households without a vehicle, that doesn't mean that 18% of households had no way out of their homes. Sure, there's a tiny statistical chance that none of them know anyone who can provide a ride out, but that's ridiculous, and you and I both know it.

There were also plenty of "shelters of last resort", which while not comfortable, beat staying in your attic with rushing water.

because they probably won't be able to watch them until next spring? come on, that's kinda sad. To sit in your rancid water-filled apartment with a big-screen t.v. that you can't even watch? they say they won't even be able to drain all the water out of the city until february.

And how is it possible to better than number in any way, shape, or form?

BTW, why did more people flee New Orleans than Charleston? Just wondering.

here:

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/503/captladp13809010012hurricaneka.jpg

Even with 10% unemployment, do you believe that, say, 25% of the population had absolutely no way out whatsoever?

Before the hurricane hit I saw a pair of reports on the national news that discussed the possibility of the city being flooded because of the bowl effect, which means that the higher-ups in New Orleans knew the possibility existed as well. What I'm saying here is I'm not sure people in New Orleans who didn't have constant access to information knew about it or that any real attempts were made to make them aware of it, other than "hurricane coming! get out!" I've just been hypothesizing as to why people might not have known the potential severity of the hurricane and why people decided to stick it out.

because there are more people in new orleans?

*rimshot*

(?)

And I have no idea what these words say...