Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

Didnt wanna go there but ya I thought it was not the womans finger

But that might be more than anyone is willing to admit

🤢

also wouldn't be okay with, like, a chicken finger. Just to be clear.

no it was not a "stop hitting yourself" type situation. there's nothing that suggests that in the sentence tbh

Considering this conversation that just followed, I really don't see why anyone was picking apart that original bolded statement in question.

this conversation has brightened my day

OK, to clarify:

There's a difference between being a person for whom "being penetrated is a no-go", and a person for whom "being penetrated is something that I will indulge in for the benefit of my sexual partner", and a person for whom "being penetrated is something that I enjoy, in small quantities-- a finger in the ass, i.e.", and a person for whom "being penetrated is the thing that my body craves, and I seek to achieve that end", and a person for whom "being penetrated in more extreme fashions-- either aggressively, or with large appliances-- is the thing that my body craves, and I seek to achieve that end".

I feel it's a safe generalization that "many men", even those who might enjoy a finger-in-the-ass, do not understand, or cannot identify one-to-one, with sexual partners who seek to be penetrated. If it were taught that men, if in the role of penetrators, were actually providing a SERVICE to many of their sexual partners, and to view it as such-- understanding that many (but not all) of their sexual partners actually desire to be penetrated, and thus to not approach the penetrative act as something that requires coercion, or pressure, or violent subtext, or belittling-- then they might perform better in their sexual role.

If a man were of the type that they wouldn’t mind something up their ass, I’m sure some would like it if you do it to them without consent, just as some might have a preference for letting them know before you do it

And this is exactly the type of thought that I'm talking about. Lots of men want their guts beat up, but NONE of them want their guts beat up non-consensually. The idea that even an eager power bottom would permit non-consensuality is the problem. Even a "fuck me bitte" Gudetama-looking West Berlin clown in the sex club with his prolapsed asshole in the air, begging for a fist, any fist, has tacitly given consent to having his yolk broken by a stranger.

But on a fundamental level

What I'm trying to say

Is that people who seek to "dom" are cool and good and should be applauded. People who seek to enact violence on others are missing the point of domming. Violent rape fantasies are for subs to devise and control, not for doms to devise and control. I myself love to get punched in the face. I literally want a black eye at all times. But I could never, ever date somebody who actively had a desire to punch me in the face, and the thought of being punched in the face non-consensually is terrifying to me.

Even a "fuck me bitte" Gudetama-looking West Berlin clown in the sex club with his prolapsed asshole in the air, begging for a fist, any fist

Well that is a thing the existence of which I would not have known about but for this thread

"If a man were of the type that they wouldn’t mind something up their ass, I’m sure some would like it if you do it to them without consent, just as some might have a preference for letting them know before you do it"

And this is exactly the type of thought that I'm talking about. Lots of men want their guts beat up, but NONE of them want their guts beat up non-consensually.

96% sure that infinity meant "without previously-acquired explicit consent via inquiry and subsequent discussion," not "against the recipient's will"

Sic otm

Probably true, but he literally said the opposite

"If a man were of the type" = there is an othering here of men who enjoy being penetrated
"that they wouldn't mind something up their ass" = a suggestion that men 'don't mind' something in their asses, i.e. "it is something they tolerate", instead of the understanding that some men actually desire, ravenously, to be penetrated
"I'm sure some would like it if you do it to them without consent" = some of these strange other men who don't mind things in their ass, they probably would love it if you gave it to them without asking

I don't think infinity actually thinks that men-who-bottom are these strange Others, some of whom enjoy being raped in they asses but this is what was explicitly stated

If it seems like I'm belabouring a point here it's because I think it really means something!

thanks for coming back with a booming post yday fgti

<3 thanks for letting me express my long-held opinion that Gudetama is an older male power bottom in the full bloom of his desperation

yes that post is going to stay etched in my mind for a fairly long time i think

I'm glad that you took the time to write that out, f. I want to add that men need to understand that being penetrated or actively wanting that in no way weakens or emasculates someone. Christ, if I had a prostrate, I would be in there all the time.

I have an announcement:

Thanks to recent ILX posts by fgti & yerac I’m now imagining gudetama in buttless chaps on top of al dente pasta, being steamed, and saying “bitte fick mich” in his little helium falsetto.

Cheers, everyone.

TY FGTI

I want everybody to know that I am motivated in my coffee drinking by the prospect of seeing gudetama's bare ass pic.twitter.com/CNOxfeazkD

— 🐢 (@smashedmcdouble) December 23, 2015

Gudetama is to be respected and given good service. Poke the soft yolk gently until it ruptures and as its insides flow over the attendant rice, you whisper: "nut"

Fgti like ya you analyzing the few words i wrote as if it were some scholarly text i took days to write is wasting yr time

As the person who wrote what you quoted i meant what sic said dude

I mean you can psychoanalyze but that’s something else entirely

I wasn't psychoanalyzing you-- apologies if I was, I hope I made it clear that I don't think that 'what was typed' reflected 'what you meant' or 'how you feel'-- I was hoping to unpack a statement that I knew was off-the-cuff to illustrate how 'some people', including myself, struggle with the understanding that the act of being penetrated is one, for many people, that is desirable.

I remember the first time I was told by a female lover, in my very early 20s, that she was into being penetrated anally. At the time, I felt a way about hearing it, and I wouldn't have been able to describe that feeling accurately then, but now, I would say I felt "worried and concerned, as if this desire to be fucked anally was some kind of perversion, and reflective of some traumatic past, as opposed to being something that she strictly would be interested in for the physical pleasure of it."

I remember too when Sinead made a statement on Twitter about how a prospective lover had better be prepared to penetrate her anally, and that there was an internet-wide tittering about it, that somebody (a woman approaching 50) expressing publicly something as normal and human as "wanting to get fucked in the ass" was somewhat taboo, and displayed some level of wantonness and/or desperation, instead of being a completely understandable and reasonable expression of one's physical desires.

I thought that The Argonauts was a worthwhile assault against the taboo of "women desirign anal penetration", with the very first page being a description of the author's first verbalization of "I love you" toward her future husband happening in the moment of her being anally penetrated, even while regarding her future husband's set of dildos lined up in the shower-- the subtext being that this was something that her future husband engaged in often, with other people-- and yet the act still felt special and pleasurable and romantic. The rest of that book, and the way it unpacked the history (back to Freud) of viewing women (mothers) having a desire to be penetrated (anally) as being suspicious and/or traumatizing to consider (by both family members and society as a whole) was terrific and I'm gonna read it again this week

I mean, what better understanding of desire-for-penetration is there than a man anally pleasuring his future wife with a strap-on, whereby the majority (I assume) of the pleasure enjoyed by the man is rooted in the act of servicing his lover? This is a description of an ideal dom-sub scenario

honestly don't remember that from listening to The Argonauts as a child

The Argonauts is an incredible book, read it last year and knew immediately it was going on permanent rotation

this thread sure took a turn

A bend, really

well played

Fgti pls stop making pronouncements on heterosexuamity, yr um not exactly doing well

Like next up are you going to point out chicks have boobs

SORRY TO BOTHER YOU (dir. Boots Riley, 2018)

The fuck is wrong with you albvivertine

I like yr posts on music a lot, but srsly did you think it'd be news to straight men that women dig penetration and we shouldn't coerce them into letting us fuck them? Last I checked the average male ilxor was closer to 40 than 14.

dang everybody look out, this guy know a lot about sex - real heterosexuamity "sexpert" if i might use the term

only one letter off in each case maybe

are men ........... . okay pic.twitter.com/UoAgrBw7LK

— critical thot (@beehivesy) August 20, 2018

Hooters debate night!

"meaningful human interactions" = men paying women (as little as possible) to be literal geishas but in, like a strip mall off of 28th Street...I think that tells you the answer is "Not even remotely."

I have to believe that Eric Adam Hovis understood he was spinning out a crazy, ott fantasy, rather than a legit business plan. But I don't think he stopped to consider for one moment what that fantasy would look like to a woman.

the sapiosexual has logged on

It should look pretty much the same to everyone?

Hooters should branch off into the life coaching business

On a serious note, if hooters is going out of business—good. The food service industry is humiliating enough without throwing in a business model that encourages sexual harassment. I always felt depressed when i drove past a hooters, or walked past that one in midtown

Boobs or gtfo

did marc loi change his online name and avatar?

It should look pretty much the same to everyone?

I agree. But "should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

"I think of current Hooters as some weird, exotic, unique luxury experience, like going to a magician restaurant"
^^some of it makes me wonder if he was trolling

I think that something along the lines of Eric's neo-hooters could well happen in the near future and be successful, maybe not so much with millennial but the next generation down? you'll have a generation's worth of nerdy boys who have grown up with internet porn, camgirls, twitch streaming, vlogging etc. social media blurring the lines between socialising and friendship and a performance that you're remunerated for, all those young ppl on twitter for whom it's a tenet that sex work shouldn't be stigmatized, all of this seems like it will start leaking out into the real world, like that New Yorker article from the other day about the guy who spends all day walking around livestreaming himself?
or maybe there will be a backlash to all this and it won't happen? but it seems to be direction of travel

the future is going to be so much worse than i could have predicted

I think that something along the lines of Eric's neo-hooters could well happen in the near future and be successful, maybe not so much with millennial but the next generation down? you'll have a generation's worth of nerdy boys who have grown up with internet porn, camgirls, twitch streaming, vlogging etc. social media blurring the lines between socialising and friendship and a performance that you're remunerated for, all those young ppl on twitter for whom it's a tenet that sex work shouldn't be stigmatized, all of this seems like it will start leaking out into the real world, like that New Yorker article from the other day about the guy who spends all day walking around livestreaming himself?

Honestly I read that whole thing and immediately thought "If I could round up investors I could open a place like that and make a fuckload of money." Of course, it would have the same problem you'd encounter if you started a cult - you have to spend all day and night surrounded by people who genuinely believe and need the bullshit you just came up with to rook them out of their cash.

on the media had a good ep about twitch the other day. one of the stories was about a guy who is basically homeless who started streaming and his users basically chipped in money to issue commands to this guy. some of it involved him asking a woman out and it got predictably weird. check it:

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/streaming-while-homeless/

did marc loi change his online name and avatar?

― omar little, Monday, August 20, 2018 7:18 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

Honestly I read that whole thing and immediately thought "If I could round up investors I could open a place like that and make a fuckload of money."

There's probably a bot already available that would provide that sort of function online. Alternately, see Woody Allen's "The Whore of Mensa."

And I'm not sad to see Hooters in distress. However, they and their ilk are really just the more extreme outliers of an economic system that encourages patrons to treat service workers as available for...additional services.