Democratic (Party) Direction

my system accounts for all of this. when ppl say things you think are different you just respond "ok sure"

i can get to that

like I honestly can't fathom why it would be important to say latinx vs latina vs whatever, but clearly it is important for some people. live and let live imo!

I'm white btw

bc latin@ doesn't include non-binary

sure

there are all sorts of things that are super important to people who are "on my side" and I just feel like there are better uses of my time than thinking about whether its good or bad, its all good imo

Seems like a bad Democratic Party direction: https://www.slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/the-rhode-island-democratic-party-may-have-endorsed-a-trump-supporter.html

Afaict Rhode Islanders would endorse a 55 gallon barrel of toxic waste if they grew up on the same block as it.

Form is just...illusory, maaaan. Get my meaning? Nope, you made that up.

my system accounts for all of this. when ppl say things you think are different you just respond "ok sure"

― k3vin k., Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:15 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i can get to that

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:18 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like I honestly can't fathom why it would be important to say latinx vs latina vs whatever, but clearly it is important for some people. live and let live imo!

― k3vin k., Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:26 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm white btw

― k3vin k., Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:27 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

bc latin@ doesn't include non-binary

― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:28 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sure

― k3vin k., Tuesday, 3 July 2018 00:30 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was good

Woulda been a bit better if k3v had responded "ok sure" in the last one.

i default to the boy form cuz hey we still run things

THIS WAS A SATIRICAL POST; THAT'S MY STORY

I assume all your posts are satirical

i don’t speak Spanish but i can’t imagine doing genre neutre in french

i do hear people say latinx aloud in, say, undocumented spaces--it seems like it's primarily a chicano-style deliberately political identity

my 2 rules for avoiding unnecessary stress:
- let people call themselves what they want to
- don't give ppl a hard time when they say things in good faith

― k3vin k., Monday, July 2, 2018 6:28 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. latinx annoyed me for a while especially since it seemed like it was mostly used by gringos but whatever. if i use any variation of the term when self-describing i tend to use "latino", sometimes i use "hispanic," both are kind of lousy

I just say "mi gente."

i'm totally down with getting away from gendered pronouns but man it's hard when you're talking about a language in which literally every noun has a gender, from book to table to moon to awkwardness. i realize those things don't self-identify so it's fine but still, it feels so much more uphill in romance languages

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, July 2, 2018 7:46 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea. there is also a conflation of gender as concept in language/grammar and gender as a social phenomenon dictating roles/norms that is sloppy imo. that a chair in spanish "la silla" is "gendered feminine" has fuck all to do with gender and people

It's even odder when you use the third person plural to avoid gender entirely, which to English ears sounds even more plural ("ellos")

actually, even that pronoun is gendered (ellos, ellas).

the french word for "dick" is feminine, which i've always thought was kind of cute

(well ONE of the french words for dick, i should say)

I'm glad to see that so many democrats are finally waking up to the idea of "playing dirty." Hopefully the next steps are (1) to realize that you have to actually hold power to wield it in a "dirty" way, and (2) Republicans don't go around openly saying that they are playing dirty. If you really want to play dirty you pretend you are playing clean.

dunno what any of that means tbh

Can we get back on topic here folks

Maybe this thread needs Fred back

i didn't mean to distract so badly (but i never want to say "latinks" and now i know i neednt).

"playing dirty" is great so long as it isn't the new code word for the same old failing "say bad things about Trump" strategy but rather being unafraid to embrace popular leftist policies

like it's one thing to "play dirty" by posting twice as many anti-Trump stories on Twitter, it's another to actually go for Medicare For All or a minimum wage.

I say "LaTEEN-ecks" and I am a gringo btw. As I understand it, "Hispanic" is out of favor because it prioritizes the Spanish colonizer part of the identity, and people of the Spanish-speaking Americas want & deserve an identity that doesn't depend on that. So Latino got to be the default except yeah, patriarchal, and "Latin@" is okay in print I guess but not really speech-able? If any actual Latinx ppl want to roll their eyes @ me that's okay sure.

why doesn't "latin_" equally emphasize the colonizer?

I mean less specific I guess, but it's still european-oriented

brb gonna listne to Cardi B + Balvin's "I Like It"

I'll call people whatever they want to be called, what do I care.

I will also call people whatever they want, but has "Latinx" become mainstreamed among Latinx people? Is that what most want to be called?

Again, in Miami, where I speak Spanish 60 percent of the time, I've never heard it, but I don't care if we're (or my group) is an outlier. I'll call you whatever you want so long as you don't call me Al.

The Latin American countries from which Latinos descend
Latino (/læˈtiːnoʊ, lə-/)[1] is a term often used in the United States to refer to people with cultural ties to Latin America, in contrast to Hispanic which is a demonym that includes Spaniards and other speakers of the Spanish language.[2][3][4][5]

"Latino" as a category used in the United States may be understood as a shorthand for the Spanish word latinoamericano (Latin American in English) or the Portuguese phrase latino americano, thus excluding speakers of Spanish or Portuguese from Europe.[6] Both Hispanic and Latino are generally used to denote people living in the United States,[7][8] so much so that "Outside the United States, we don't speak of Latinos; we speak of Mexicans, Colombians, Peruvians, and so forth."[9][10] In Latin America, the term latino is not a common endonym and its usage in Spanish as a demonym is restricted to the Latin American-descended population of the United States.

I've never come across it in conversation in my daily life in my heavily Spanish-speaking community, but what do I know maybe it's cuz I'm mostly talking to either little kids or parents

xp

fwiw this excellent book that I just read goes into this a little bit (granted its from a cultural/artist perspective) about how artists in America who were descended from immigrants from Mexico, Colombia, etc. wanted their own term that reflected their status, apart from being "Mexican" or "American". Latino encompassed the range of possibilities, from people whose families had lived in America for generations to recent immigrants from other various Latin American countries. Makes sense to me.

and when the Mission Cultural Center was founded there was tension between those who wanted to emphasize European stuff (ie from Spain/Portugal) vs. those who wanted to focus on Latin American-rooted stuff. Which was a local backdrop for the Hispanic vs. Latino designation noted above.

And here's an interesting Code Switch podcast ep about how "Latino" got on the US census as a category.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/08/03/541142339/heres-why-the-census-started-counting-latinos-and-how-that-could-change-in-2020

I figure the percentage of ppl who know about/care about/prefer Latinx is probably about the same as that of ppl who care about not mis-gendering others or not making statements that assume an "either/or" gender binary--like people who refer to "both genders" instead of "all genders." Which on the whole probably isn't a lot of people. I'm still gonna do it tho because I think we're generally in transition to a less gender-burdened way of being human and I want to keep moving that forward.

yeah that last point is right on

are we human
or are we gender

like it's one thing to "play dirty" by posting twice as many anti-Trump stories on Twitter, it's another to actually go for Medicare For All or a minimum wage.

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau)

my opinion is the exact opposite. as long as we have this hyper-polarized political climate, meaningful policy change is nearly impossible. what i don't want to see is a repeat of the aca in which the whole thing was sabotaged from the get-go by republicans, who then said it was because it was a bad idea in the first place. too many leftists, i think, buy into this narrative, have the idea that it didn't work because it wasn't _radical_ enough, and minimize the role years of consistent republican opposition played in its failures. my legislative priorities for the democrats when they get in power are to reform our failed institutions so that they can function effectively again. that does, of course, include healthcare, as it has for decades, but it also includes a lot of other things now.

i'm gender wayang

"latinx" strikes me as a formulation well-suited to internet discourse, in that it's a lot easier to type than it is to say. a lot of the proposed gender-neutral pronouns were the same way - i remember in the '90s bdsm scene "hir" was popular.

'xir' possibly the winner there - but these are all well-meaning fumblings towards a better world

I love that the native americans and other indigenous people of different countries had 5 genders.

I would like for there to be universal healthcare in the US. Those that don't want their healthcare to be involved with the government can be all means pay for private insurance. You would think that with more competition and fewer "sick" people weighing down insurance companies, private healthcare would become better/less costly. But we know the healthcare companies still gotta hit their quarterly projections.