Democratic (Party) Direction

still haven't brought myself to unfollow greenwald. he was too important to me 10 years ago

― k3vin k., Friday, June 29, 2018

Same, but I get second thoughts when he posts photos of him and his boyfriend in cargo shorts, thong sandals, and their dirty dogs.

Of course then there are people like Cuomo who will stab you in the back repeatedly

p sure the answer to this is, typically, no

have there been any exit interviews with people from the bronx about why they voted for ocasio-cortez

— David Grossman (@davidgross_man) June 29, 2018

I don't think he was suggesting that mcewee invented the ideas

― k3vin k., Friday, June 29, 2018 5:27 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, but mcelwee sure is taking a lot of twitter victory laps lately that are annoying the immigrant rights movement

Politicians who at least *can* be pushed left are not the worst thing. I remember hearing a white house tape of LBJ telling MLK something to the effect of "make me do it, force me to get the civil rights act past."

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, June 29, 2018 5:35 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah tbh imo this is the only reason to invest in electoral work--getting people elected that you know you can push to honor your agenda

insisting on ideological purity from our reps is counter-productive and naive, the important thing is that they vote for the correct positions when it matters. that's it. LBJ is a perfect example of this. politicians' inherent opportunism is a tool to be exploited.

hell yeah

i like to say "my favorite kinds of politicans are craven because they're predictable"

LBJ voted against every single civil rights bill - actually actively blocked them in the Senate - until he saw the political benefits of passing a bill shift, and then he did it. and that broke the dam, and led directly to stuff like the Voting Rights Act.

Presumably the “start again” version of ICE is like have desk agents pursue deportations of undocumented people who have committed violent crimes and not have a uniformed police force round people up trying to meet quotas. Which yknow I’m willing to put #OpenBorders right next to #AbolishICE but I’m also willing to do things one (big) thing at a time

Harris and Gillibrand are both in this mold, to varying degrees (I think Gillibrand started out a bit farther right/more centrist than Harris? But Harris is, after all, a prosecutor so there's some less than ideal positions in her past)

xp

Ppl who decry incrementalism neglect the viability of large and high-impact increments. $15 an hour is not a basic income or even a living wage for a household in my city but it it’s a ratchet, and it’s here now.

insisting on ideological purity from our reps is counter-productive and naive, the important thing is that they vote for the correct positions when it matters. that's it. LBJ is a perfect example of this. politicians' inherent opportunism is a tool to be exploited.

― Οὖτις, Friday, June 29, 2018 12:43 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agree, but at the same time the latest election cycles have demonstrated the power of PROJECTING ideological purity in shifting the debate/overton window.

I mean at some point no one wants to vote for Senator Blank Slate, and Senator Blank Slate isn't mobilizing or energizing people or getting people behind policies.

true

I know the cliche is “politicians don’t honor their promises” but isn’t the opposite true? Politicians tend to enact the major campaign policies they ran on? For both good and bad.

That’s why the “but do they really *mean* it?” stuff that was used to hand waive away progressive planks in the presidential and party platform a couple years ago was kind of baffling.

Clinton's platform was mealy-mouthed and unclear on many progressive issues, especially economic ones. She loved using language like "high quality, affordable healthcare for all" --no one actually knows what policy that is.

Medicare for All -- I know what that is.

xps. the majority of governments i've lived under have reneged on major manifesto pledges

infowars is shook

tag yourself, I’m “weakening police while gangs run rampant” pic.twitter.com/mEH5j7GG7a

— Alex Press (@alexnpress) June 29, 2018

that was the worst picture they could find of her, she's so damned photogenic

just recently the Liberal party in Canada reneged on some of their biggest promises within less than a year of winning a majority

Disarming all citizens, yup sounds good

xp

I'm in favor of never-ending government handouts for all

I feel like the constant use of "Venezuela" as a go-to is a bit of a loser for them.

For a lot of the infowars audience you might as well be saying "Tuvalu"

I'm amazed the word "socialism" didn't appear on that attack ad anywhere. One of the many elements of cognitive dissonance in the current GOP discourse is how closely it adheres it 1950s style red scare rhetoric - despite the cold war being long over and, for that matter, with a president overtly cozying up to the former and future evil empire itself. The right wields the word "socialist" like the Soviets just launched Sputnik.

That’s why the “but do they really *mean* it?” stuff that was used to hand waive away progressive planks in the presidential and party platform a couple years ago was kind of baffling.

it is not baffling to ask if Clinton, who had originally voted for the Homeland Security Act that enabled ICE in the first place, would continue doing what she had already done, especially given that "maintain the status quo" was her big message going forward. this is not too much to ask of a presidential candidate.

Eh the website was a lot more specific than that. Although of course there’s problem w relying on people to go to the website than putting things in the foreground of messaging.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Clinton's platform was mealy-mouthed and unclear on many progressive issues, especially economic ones. She loved using language like "high quality, affordable healthcare for all" --no one actually knows what policy that is.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, June 29, 2018

xp because socialism polls well now

I feel like the constant use of "Venezuela" as a go-to is a bit of a loser for them.

As evidenced by how badly it backfired in the infamous Dasha video.

It really doesn't matter how "socialism" polls, does it? Trump's people are 35% and they've circled the wagons, they're not trying to convince anyone else to come to their side.

The "socialism sucks" slogan sounds like an anti-smoking campaign from the early 90s

Has there been a GOP push to legalize smoking indoors and public places yet?

You know what depresses me is that no one managed to stop the Nazis

They killed millions of people and it took a world war that killed millions more to finally halt their project

#FridayFeeling

Adam, there were long stump speeches broadcast on cable news where HRC talked about not maintaining status quo in those exact terms/verbiage in addition to increasing economic relief. But the guy who fell for the “she laughed at the rape victim” Facebook meme might have been locked into a certain narrative idk.

It's amazing how long people will stick to the "Hillary's policy positions were clear, easy to understand, and well-communicated, and it's voters' fault for not getting the message" argument

The candidate who brought you the twllfthiteen dollar minimum wage

i believe it was only a few days ago that some excellent poster suggested "hey, let's not do this again"

you know I feel like no one talks about Hillary's failings enough, really a missed opportunity in our political discourse

There were problems w messaging I’ve acknowledged but jfc we can agree that the guy going all “Hillary only ever talked about how much she loved the celebrity wine moms” is wrong and that misinformation (willful acceptance of) was let’s say an element of things since he just literally demonstrated (as he does often) that he’s maybe a useful case study of that?

I didn't bring her up! It was Nerdstrom!

honestly i'd rather not have the conversation at all

yes we know couldn't resist bc you have a lot of excess energy since fred stopped posting in this thread man alive

LBJ voted against every single civil rights bill - actually actively blocked them in the Senate - until he saw the political benefits of passing a bill shift, and then he did it. and that broke the dam, and led directly to stuff like the Voting Rights Act.

― Οὖτις, Friday, June 29, 2018 5:44 PM (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a story i've told at countless civil disobedience trainings it rules

yes we know couldn't resist bc you have a lot of excess energy since fred stopped posting in this thread man alive

― flamenco blorf (BradNelson), Friday, June 29, 2018 1:29 PM (thirty-four seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

roll tide

honestly i'd rather not have the conversation at all

besides the fact that he's old as shit and has major policy blindspots, the main reason I don't want bernie to run again is it pulls us back to that goddamn conversation again

Let's get drinks everyone -- it's Friday.

For the sake of everyone I should get back to it, huh?

Fred get a job