US Politics, June 2018: This is a total goat rodeo.

I mean, precisely?

xp

I mean, just speaking for me -- very far toward the privileged/with-resources end of the axis here, compared to most people who might leave their country -- it would be impossible unless I married someone who lived elsewhere (getting to the marriage stage is difficult enough under normal circumstances) and/or found a job abroad (getting a job is also difficult enough under normal circumstances, and I have basically zero job skills anyone gives a shit about)

This doesn't read impossible to me. Pain in the ass? Sure. Impossible? Hardly.

quitters

this is my country, I ain't leaving it

my family's been here since the fucking 1680s, and in California since the 1890s I'm not ceding it to a bunch of fascist fuckwits

People being forced to migrate (often due to American musadventure) is not the same as voluntarily leaving the US. You have options.

my father's father moved here from Germany (after being imprisoned in Portugal) under a certain set of adverse circumstances around 1940, I have all the documents I need to apply for German naturalization, so

When I feel down and useless about the state of everything I try to keep in mind that there has suddenly been a mainstreaming of knowledge about things such as intersectionality, black culture, confirmation bias racism etc. I've been really hard on myself the last couple of years for being naive about so much of it. But on the other hand, I also think that growing old in the US is unsustainable for the majority of people. I don't want to spend the last decades of my life worried that getting sick will completely bankrupt me.

i'll admit i don't really follow non-US politics much at all, but my general sense is that Europe is...pretty much just as shitty? not every country of course but generally speaking there's plenty of incipient facism and demonizing of migrants/refugees.

xp — pretty sure writing a few reviews of american CDs from time to time does not qualify one for a freelance visa, and that is all I am capable of

Europe is v much just as shitty (and probably even more racist)

also xo yeah, Europe has its own far right resurgence

Incipient fascism in some places? Sure. Ubiquitous gun violence? A nonexistent healthcare system? Not so much.

so Canada it is then? I've made my peace with Drake.

Antarctica is looking pretty good to me tbh. Get in before it melts away.

but then the shoggoths will get you!

I think I might take my chances with the shoggoths.

I am in France/UK like 2 months out of the year. This trip I feel like there is more annoyance/hostility towards Americans (prolly some even from me, ha!)

Also I fully endorse shunning friends/family who are pro this shitshow and publicly shaming Trump officials.

I think Canadians' perception of the US deteriorated the most since fuckface-in-chief got elected.

My brother worked in Australia for a couple of months during Dubya's presidency, and the anti-American sentiment at that time made him miserable. I can't even imagine how much the world must despise us at this point. Thank goodness for my facility wrt accent mimicry, is alls I'm sayin'.

As a consolation prize, you can count on being welcomed with arms wide open in Russia, North Korea, Israel and the Philippines, among other stalwart bastions of human rights.

Israel is probably my best option lol

Not judging others here for their reactions/actions but: I am far less worried about myself (and what will ostensibly happen to my straight white male ass) than what is being done to other, less-privileged humans.

Given that my beef with the Trumpoid program is that it systematically degrades and oppresses people of color, women, the poor, the disabled, sexual minorities... what good does MY leaving for France (or whatever) accomplish?

tl;dr: Outic OTM

exactly, there is also that; I just do not feel there is anything I can do personally, with my given location, skill set, personality, and clout, to even move the dial on that. even voting doesn't do shit because I live in a solidly blue state (this includes primary day; even if I could vote in the primaries, which I can't, I don't live in any of the contested districts)

I also think that growing old in the US is unsustainable for the majority of people. I don't want to spend the last decades of my life worried that getting sick will completely bankrupt me.

This is a major factor in my decision-making.

Europe is v much just as shitty (and probably even more racist)

Oh, horseshit. You sound like a MAGA chud who's never left his home state.

What it boils down to is I have no sentimental attachment to America-the-idea. I want a good (better, happier) life for me and my wife. If that was gonna happen here, I'd stay. It's not, so I'm gonna do what it takes to get the fuck out.

This is very simple to me.

Organized, regular everyday people and their movements are responsible for the most significant social improvements of the last century. And there's no movement without one turning into two, turning into three, and so on.

Voting sometimes matters a great deal; often it doesn't. What matters most is keeping power-holders accountable and, when useful, afraid of the rest of us.

An inability to grow old and to raise a family on a median income were big reasons we left the USA three years.

There is here in France the threat of fascism and a deep seated suspicion of non French among about 1/3 of French people but I’ll take my chances there compared with the American situation—-especially as a Latino. And here in France“all sides” recognize the seriousness of fascism, a seriousness that is scarce in the USA at large. We will need slide into fascism—-if we do it, it will be with clarity.

yes, and it is well known that people without resources or incredible luck have great odds and a hearty welcome moving to other countries, as evidenced by (gestures broadly to the news)

Go to Scotland, they need more people there.

There's an art and maybe even a science to movement building, and active participation can take a lot of forms: protesting, sure, but donating, or having conversations with people to poke at their own complicity, or feeding or housing or clothing movement people, or child care, or making time and space for the tired and burned out

*not* slide into fascism xp

anyway personally i have very little to lose these days and am willing to bite it if it comes to it

xp -- the only one of those things I am capable of doing (people don't usually want to talk to me in general, let alone about burnout or complicity) I've applied to countless child-care jobs and volunteer roles and been rejected) is donation, and while I do that, as I understand it organizations tend to be flooded with donations in the wake of events like the 2016 election, to the point where any individual contribution accomplishes next to nothing. (not even political donations or money, too; for instance, donating clothes often gets your clothes sent to landfills as rags or, alternatively, sent to other countries to sell at rock-bottom cost and ruin their textile economies)

Organized, regular everyday people and their movements are responsible for the most significant social improvements of the last century.

The gay rights movement went from near invisibility in the closet in 1965 to gay marriage in 2015 because they started to organize relentlessly, formed alliances, lobbied, protested, and took to the streets.

Decent people leaving gives evil fux0rz free rein to do what they will to the downtrodden. What they have always wanted to do.

Dunno about you, but my conscience doesn't sit well with the idea of sitting comfortably in a Dublin pub while the Pence Patrol (tm) rounds up disabled black kids in Philadelphia. Or whatever.

shakey and hoos simultaneously otm

xpost Would you be surprised at all if those advances and rights were suddenly reversed with a court decision or sweep of the pen? I wouldn't. That's where we are now.

There’s always someone that genuinely needs your money. My town has an escalating homeless crisis and a useless waste of a mayor unable to stand up to Amazon and Vulcan when trying to pass piddling tax measures to do something about it. So I funnel money into a couple supportive housing orgs. They are mostly funded by restricted grants and contracts and big dollar donors but I’m pretty confident unrestricted small dollar donors are helping pay for case workers and toilet paper. If you’re concerned about the impact of your dollar, keep your money close to home and give it to orgs you trust that are trying to house your neighbors sleeping outside.

My imo.

anyway personally i have very little to lose these days and am willing to bite it if it comes to it

I understand where you’re coming from here, but you should know that we all want you to gradually and gracefully turn into old man hoos shaking your fist at the bullshit, all the way to the very end. The willingness to sacrifice is noble, but it will be very hard for a single act to outweigh all the good things you’re going to help create for the rest of your life.

This SC ruling on the CA abortion law is bullshit. How can you be a licensed or unlicensed clinic and be allowed to lie to your patients and not give full medical care?

Feel like I need to just start ignoring as much of what's going on at the national level as I can and refocus all of the energy I burn on anxiety towards local initiatives. Mad props to anyone who has the wherewithal to tackle federal-level bullshit, but it all just feels way too overwhelming to me. Hunkering down and taking care of local vulnerable communities feels much more doable, and I think it's going to become increasingly important as this shitshow continues.

anyway, apologies if I've upset anyone, I just genuinely do believe that A) things are going to get worse, and there is a chance they are going to get much worse; they've already gotten much worse than people were expecting, the mainstreaming of actual Nazis being an excellent example, and B) both the system and my personality are such that I am useless at best, and more likely actively making things worse.

silby is otm, there are always orgs and initiatives happening where individual donations are actually are impactful

Would you be surprised at all if those advances and rights were suddenly reversed with a court decision or sweep of the pen? I wouldn't. That's where we are now.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, June 26, 2018 4:49 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, i wouldn't be surprised--the battle never really ends. all we get to do is choose our side, fight, and advance.

Legal mobilization is a thing movements do, too.

I mean, as far as legal mobilization, assuming you're talking about the courts (apologies if you're not) the end game for that is to go to the Gorsuch Supreme Court

I fully believe it's going to get a lot worse too. But I am not going to change. As a woman, I am taking great joy in really feeling my natural assholishness protrude by calling Trumpster ideologies out in public when I see it occur. I don't feel like that will ever flag no matter how hopeless it seems. I have been thinking a little of moving residences from NYC to GA for voting reasons.

the battle never really ends. all we get to do is choose our side, fight, and advance.

^^^ wisdom.

never expect a permanent victory. There is no such thing, really.

Besides movements on the left, what greater evidence do we need of the power of organized protest than what the right has done since the late '70 in reversing decades of New Deal/Great Society advancements?