Queer Eye For The Straight Guy WTF

imago, I was in Ladywell for a few days and webmailed you to ask if you were around for a drink!

you don't have to go to lisping gays or wearing makeup to find things that define being gay. you're projecting that onto it.

i agree that those things don't define it but neither does fucking but, sure, if you want then scott thompson knows what being gay is and i don't.

ah damn ok! maybe next time, sorry i didn't see it sooner!

i sent my number, stay in touch!

i'm glad we've reached this point because i think the tension between gay and queer identities/roles/stereotypes and the extent of mainstream acceptance and approval of those identities/roles/stereotypes is worth discussing or arguing over. Queer Eye is not really the show to do that though. it's simplistic, it goes for neat resolutions, it's conformist while making slightly risque comments and references to gay practices that make it seem more transgressive than it is. it's for safe gays, it's for gays that still go to church, it's for the gays that revere authority and want to forgive arseholes for being arseholes, the ones that look down on activists and shun them for being too gay or vocal or abnormal and act as gatekeepers for the community. it's for platitudinous gays that like tacky inspirational quotes that sentimentalise everything, it's for gays that are eager to please. and yet it's still enjoyable and has the odd good insight.

when did you get so wise? /gay sarcasm.

that was lame, sorry.

lol

the show now in its reincarnation isn’t nearly as narrowly prescriptive as the original show was

I feel ambivalent/cognitively dissonant about this because I'm finding myself agreeing with some of what Shakey posted but also leaning more toward your perspective, Jed. I'm looking at what I wrote and wondering whether I'm being a massive hypocrite or projecting my insecurities about my own sexuality and the sexuality and expression of others. Whether I'm wanting to view a more normalised, sanitised representation that covers up or glosses over or stereotypically only winks or jokes about anything resembling same sex desire, that's pretending to be more sophisticated, that isn't acknowledging base desires or just being matter of fact about homo fucking. Something that revels in certain stereotypes but almost refuses to admit others. Sometimes i watch something like Queer Eye and it seems positive in its self confidence, but then I can't help but be critical of it and its version of gayness, of what kind of messages it's putting out. Part of me doesn't gaf about them being gay when they're pushing quotes by Rumi etc. That's just a certain kind of sentimentalist.

I agree it has broadened too, Veg.

i didn't think it was hypocritical at all, sorry for my flippant response to your good post(s). i'll respond properly when i'm sober.

No what I mean is I'm looking at what I'm criticising about Queer Eye and whether I've been more or less the same in some respects, I mean with passivity or tacit condoning of people rejecting other people for not being normal enough or whatever. But then I also wonder whether it's always about sexuality. Sometimes it's about them being truly cringeworthy and annoying Amanda Palmer kind of personality types. And they will make it about about sexuality and you'll maybe believe it is, when it's really more about their stupid and annoying traits.

having a Monday session eh? *makes drinky drinky motion*

or r u getting drunk off the power of my posts

sorry that should be what i'm criticising about what i perceive to be a typical gay Queer Eye fan xposts

to interrupt these more thoughtful posts: the thing i struggled with the most in this show is tan being dogmatic about clothes while never being the best dressed of the group (antoni i kiss you and yr neckerchiefs). i want someone to go and make faces at his wardrobe and throw away all his hideous print shirts.

I think Tan dresses well for his build and background.

I think Scott Thompson is wrong in a modern sense. But I can see where he is speaking from (old school, white homosexual man).

My issue with Arian is the same as I have had with a few other subjects, I just hate if scammers get on the show in or people who don't seem worthy (because they seem jerky or ungrateful) of the thousands of dollars in services and stuff. But it's a mutual give and take so whatever.

I have nothing against the Tan shirts, but he has really turned out to be a one-trick pony. He gave Skyler a sparkly jacket, sure, but virtually everything else in the closet was the usual stuff. He hardly takes their personality and tastes into account at all.

dresses well for his background?

He's an english fashion designer, that does mostly women's clothing now. I find hit or miss print shirts like, a trademark.

He knows they love a rolled up sleeve, they just don't know it yet xposts

He's a little guy!

I kind of dig a rolled up sleeve too. Most shirts sold in mainstream stores have terrible cuts/proportions for most people and who has time/$ to tailor everything.

I just got dressed and my t shirt has pre rolled up sleeves. So much better.

I bought my mr veg a fashionable cream-colored tshirt with variegated horizontal stripes for his birthday & he made this face like “youve been watching too much Queer Eye” but it looked good so I feel vindicated

i have never actively bought clothes for mr veg before and tbh idk if i would do it again
feels a bit weird?

I recently talked my husband into rolling his sleeves - he likes short sleeve Patagonia button-downs but I’ve always hated how big and baggy the sleeves are. So much better rolled - yerac otm.

i'm glad we've reached this point because i think the tension between gay and queer identities/roles/stereotypes and the extent of mainstream acceptance and approval of those identities/roles/stereotypes is worth discussing or arguing over.

I agree with this. I identify as "gay" and would get laughed out of the room if I identified as "queer," so

me too and some of my gay friends would be horrified if someone called them queer.

I would be flattered, not horrified, but I know I fall short of the tag.

I will also ask on the gay thread but I would like to know whether or not it is OK in 2018 for straight people to use the term queer? Growing up I was taught (by straight ppl) that this was a derogatory term, like the f word, and not OK for me (cis straight) to use any more than the n word (I'm white).

I finally watched the mayor of Clarkston episode. I really liked the guy and his mayoress.

ok, wtf was Tan playing at in the clothing store? he puts the guy in a light jean with the faked pre-fades that he pairs with a blazer and a black oxford shoe? that is a very bad combo on the lower half particularly. he really has to stop with this "french tuck" too. i have never in my life seen somone with the front of their shirt tucked in but the back hanging out.

his bear was bad, as was noted above, but he really suited a beard (although not that swedish death metal beard/twits beard) and he would have looked better with a properly kempt short beard rather than unshaven. I did not like his haircut, it was better before.

style star of the show was actually the female consul from sierra leone who came for dinner and the older man with the transparent shirt was good as well.

as eric noted above bobby is again doing the "heavy lifting" here.

really lovely couple though!

I agree with this. I identify as "gay" and would get laughed out of the room if I identified as "queer," so

The reason I chucked "queer" in there was because I didn't want to make it all about gay men, when this is a show called "Queer Eye" and has broadened to include makeovers of at least one person that might identify as "queer". That said I basically went on to only talk about gays.

I will also ask on the gay thread but I would like to know whether or not it is OK in 2018 for straight people to use the term queer? Growing up I was taught (by straight ppl) that this was a derogatory term, like the f word, and not OK for me (cis straight) to use any more than the n word (I'm white).

Quincie, I think the answer is some people are ok with it, but some people strongly resent and resist it, for numerous reasons. One being its associations with a certain kind of preciously radical type, like some people might acknowledge that they're different but being brought under the same umbrella as a person with quite different political views and expression, some people don't want to be categorised like that. Another being that some people don't want other people thinking there's something wrong with their sexuality, since even though it's synonymous with "unconventional" and "odd", it's also synonymous with "deviant", "dubious" and "creepy" which obvs have less pleasant connotations. Some people choose to own it, like "yay I'm queer as in freaky and not boring normal", and good for them reclaiming something and using it for empowerment, but it's not necessarily going to sit comfortably for those that struggle to divorce it from other meanings. If you go back to say, b&w noir films, you'll probably hear the word used negatively, as in "there's something queer going on here", like "there's something dodgy and shady and NOT RIGHT going on here", and even though the word is far less commonly used these days to describe something odd or suss, especially by younger people, it's still around, still tied to another use that darkens its meaning. I know "queer" is supposed to be inclusive and celebratory of difference, but sometimes it also comes across as trendy and representative of only a certain section of homosexuality, imo.

Totally agree, Jed! I started regretting saying the clothing had improved. It really hadn't though. I thought initially he was doing ok but then that episode in particular stuck out. I don't think it's very fair to criticise Tan's style as staid. I mean it is, but these aren't usually the most adventurous people, and he's making them more presentable. However, I will agree he does seem to have ignored some of their personal style. The too short trousers on the mayor was nagl. That's a late teen/early 20s look imo, and even then it can look too fashiony. He also should have just had his beard trimmed slightly, because he ended up looking a bit gaunter. He had luscious locks before too! Tan made him look a little bit neo-Nazi, yes, but also kind of 50s or 60s military-preppy. It definitely made him look more severe, but then maybe that's what they were aiming for, so he would get more respect from his councillors, which is kind of what he wanted.

The rolled up sleeve thing is just hilarious because he does it every time, without fail.

It looks ok on some guys but can be a little conspicuous on others. I don't think Tan pays much attention to whether it's going to look more conspicuous on a certain kind of man. I think it's something that on its own is usually fine, but if there's another little fashiony ProTip going on, or some other prominent item of clothing that screams fash, then you're going to look as if you're trying a little too hard.

Lol at all the guys that did this before Tan recommended it and may now feel self-conscious about other people thinking they're aping his style.

I think what I want to say to Quincie, to better answer that question, is yes I think it's more or less ok in 2018 to use the term "queer" as a straight person. It has become more normalised, and is generally seen as a catchall term to describe people of different sexualities, without being an offensive term to the majority of people that identify as non-straight.

God I feel as if I'm mansplaining here, sorry!

However, I would probably be careful about the context in which it's used, and I wouldn't necessarily refer to someone as "a queer" or "queer" if you weren't sure whether they were comfortable with being referred to that way. And don't necessarily assume that the person is being precious because they don't want to accept being termed "queer". There is already a lot of policing and gatekeeping going on about what is and isn't "queer" in the gay community, so people can easily feel alienated by that too.

sorry but the whole french tuck thing is cracking me up too

i secretly want him to keep doing it so i can lol every time as the guy nods and goes "oh ok, huh, guess i never thought of that"

TanJonathan made him look a little bit neo-Nazi, yes, but also kind of 50s or 60s military-preppy.

sorry, didn't mean to post so many times in a row

Oh yeah, the mayor. That was the only clothes that I was against because of the weird trousers for such a tall guy. I don't know if he was going for a Thom Brown look? It just didn't work. And he had a nazi haircut before and after, just shorter. I actually said aloud "he has a nazi haircut, i mean it's a good haircut in general, but yeah..." I like a french tuck. I didn't know it had a name until this show. A lot of shirts are too long and cut off at the bottom too boxy, but tucking it in fully makes you look squat and constanza-y if you don't have the best body.

Fair point. I don't mean to be a judgey dick about it. I don't actually have much of an opinion about how it looks, it's more that Tan has turned it into a thing.

Do you really think he looked like a Nazi with his original hairstyle? I'm not seeing it. Maybe in a slightly Michael Pitt sort of way.

It was the undercut and floppy/long top. I stopped cutting my spouse's hair like that because of all the shit in the world. I am googling to see if Beckham is still wearing fash hair. So many articles on this haircut. But yeah the french tuck is good for belly chub without making you seem totally sloppy.

Thank you for the thoughtful response(s), qq. You weren't mansplaining; I asked because I really wanted an update on current usage parameters! I think that unless I know that a gay person prefers "queer," I would stick with "gay" (for example: a girlfriend meets a coworker and says "oh wow he's cute and nice, is he single? Me: "yes to all, but he's gay" vs. "he's queer").

Which makes me curious as to why the showrunners chose "Queer Eye" and not "Gay Eye," as the Fab Five refer to themselves on camera as "gay guys," not "queer guys."

I like this show for something light and cheerful when my brain is tired. I would kiw each and every one of those guys, they seem like genuinely kind and fun people. Their banter in the truck is my favorite part of the show.

Like, "Big Gay Jesus" still makes me giggle.

french tuck (well, half-tuck) was every video game character in 2007

image example

He is also so on point about where the shoulder seam should fall on shirts. I super like a lot of men's clothes and always think I can wear it (even just men's t shirts) if I buy a S or XS. Nope, the shoulders are always all wrong and gives it away. And the sleeves are stupid boxy/blousey.

his bear was bad, as was noted above, but he really suited a beard (although not that swedish death metal beard/twits beard) and he would have looked better with a properly kempt short beard rather than unshaven. I did not like his haircut, it was better before.

yeah, I was fretting that they were gonna take his whole beard off - as well as suiting him, I thought that as a wee baby attempting to build respect in his community as mayor, a solid but shaped beard would probably help give him some authority amongst older sceptics and non-voters.


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:21 AM (yesterday)

Shakey how many gay Scottish comedians are you citing as authorities on this or anything?

(tbf I don't think anyone would take Larry Dean as fashion maven, least of all himself)

i have never actively bought clothes for mr veg before and tbh idk if i would do it again
feels a bit weird?

if you like the results then I recommend trying again? esp if you say "hey I really like you in that shirt" a few times before saying "if yr cool with it I could buy or suggest some others?" and if he's weird about it too then you can both settle into shared discomfort, nbd.

sic that Scott Thompson quote I posted is from an interview where he decries how much he is ignored/ostracized by the larger gay community, despite being relatively famous (on various hit TV shows, etc.) so jed's not knowing who he is has a certain irony

on TV shows in North America

no Larry Sanders or Kids in the Hall in the UK? huh

I bought clothes for my partner once or twice but the fit is hard so I would rather drag him into a store while we are out and pull things out that I think look good.

I know who he is now from podcasts, have never seen an episode of Kids In The Hall, which AFAIK never aired in Australia. watched Larry Sanders dedicatedly, but didn't have any wider context for "the guy who played Hank's assistant after Darlene"

(Larry Dean is the only gay Glaswegian comedian I can think of, because I've seen him do spots in Sydney.)