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and obv the ability to transfer genetic material across species is some kind of different order of change to selective breeding but i'm not sure there aren't environmental examples of this too

― the Messi inside (Noodle Vague), Monday, June 11, 2018 4:33 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Apparently lots of organisms have bits of code from other organisms already? Idk

yeah i think for example insects might transfer bits of other species' code thru viruses and other vectors but i'm only remembering things i've read

silby, I can (and will) go further than your controp on dogs. Pretty much ANY intentional breeding of cats or dogs is basically murder, as long as hundreds of thousands of pets continue to be be euthanized for lack of good homes.

and obv the ability to transfer genetic material across species is some kind of different order of change to selective breeding but i'm not sure there aren't environmental examples of this too

Yeah like 40% of human DNA is bacterial in origin; 8% is viral in origin.

i'm anti-GMO on the basis that a lot GMO crops rely on increased pesticide use. i also share the concerns that NV mentioned about the politics of it and things like patent ownership issues

don't really give a fuck about genes being played with etc but i do care about the ecosystems we inhabit and who holds the power when it comes to feeding people

Justices Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch should be accorded the respect due to their humanity, such as it is and what there is of it.

xxxp flu viruses? Though I don’t know if they are classified as different in the way this thread is talking about.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/change.htm

A subtype or a virus with a hemagglutinin or a hemagglutinin and neuraminidase combination that has emerged from an animal population that is so different from the same subtype in humans that most people do not have immunity to the new (e.g. novel) virus. Such a “shift” occurred in the spring of 2009, when an H1N1 virus with a new combination of genes emerged to infect people and quickly spread, causing a pandemic. When shift happens, most people have little or no protection against the new virus.

Xp to silby

At the dog park one time I meet a cute mini husky. The owners tell me the father is Pomeranian and the mother is husky. I jokingly ask “how does that even work”. Their response (seriously): IVF

Like, I will coo at and pet your cute dog, but if you got it from a breeder I am def silently judging you.

i'm anti-GMO on the basis that a lot GMO crops rely on increased pesticide use. i also share the concerns that NV mentioned about the politics of it and things like patent ownership issues

― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Monday, June 11, 2018 12:42 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't really give a fuck about genes being played with etc but i do care about the ecosystems we inhabit and who holds the power when it comes to feeding people

― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Monday, June 11, 2018 12:44 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I believe you are misinformed regarding pesticide use, but I will have to look for some research when I get home

My first thought was that some gmo stuff was made to be heartier and disease resistant so less pesticides can be used. But I am sure I am just thinking of a niche example.

Clarence Thomas can eat all the dicks.

and some gmo plants are bred to be more tolerant to herbicides like Roundup so that it can be used more liberally

pretty sure we have a thread for this also

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/8/e1600850.full

looks like over the past couple of decades pesticide use has gone down, while herbicide use has gone up (the latter paralleling the rise of glyphosate resistance)

the evidence for glyphosate toxicity is pretty weak, iirc

Gmo will be played out as hypercapitalistic exploitation of nonproperty nonrights holders. enjoy.

Anti-GMO people are like anti-vaccine people.

this is a bullshit line promoted by the pro-GMO side to paint anyone against it as a fringe lunatic. there are plenty of real issues w GMO's that don't even have to do with the safety of the final product.

it's an easy trap to fall into tho. the #1 internet pasttime is showing how smart you are by finding a dumb position and demonizing the strawmen that hold it

Gmo will be played out as hypercapitalistic exploitation of nonproperty nonrights holders. enjoy.

― Hunt3r, Monday, June 11, 2018 7:22 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think anyone in daily life is actively "pro GMO"

pesticide use has gone down

this could be due to gmo crops that incorporate the 'BT' gene from a particular kind of bacteria. the bacteria itself was first adopted by organic farmers, then agribusiness latched onto it and did their gene-splicing thing with it.

now there are a lot of gmo crops that have had this gene spliced in, but the (justified) fear is that these have become so massively widespread that insects will adapt, become tolerant, and there's no convenient replacement besides conventional pesticides - thereby destroying an excellent tool for organic farming.

I still don't know what "organic" is meant to mean!

ICE agents should be doxxed and harrassed

harassed

I still don't know what "organic" is meant to mean!

― valorous wokelord (silby), Monday, June 11, 2018 1:37 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it’s a marketing term

ICE agents should be doxxed and harrassed

― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, June 11, 2018 10:45 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was thinking last week this would be a good idea

they should feel uncomfortable every time they leave their homes

I still don't know what "organic" is meant to mean!

"organic" as a label for food makes very little sense, except as a made-up shorthand for food grown without the use of soil amendments, herbicides, or pesticides which are manufactured in bulk by industrial processes.

the whole purpose of "organic" methods is to protect the natural fertility of the soil, which is an extremely complex compound of bacteria, fungi and both organic and inorganic molecules. these methods do not produce "healthier" food in any significant sense, but rather healthier soil capable of maintaining its ability to grow crops without, for example, massive fertilizer runoff into waterways and other hazards of modern industrial agribusiness.

British consumers don’t like GM food, and one of the big fears of Brexit is American GM imports.

what don't they like about it?

not runny enough

Foreign.

flavor (i.e. it has some)

A lot of countries ban GMOs.

GTFO GMO

paging oGMOr to thread

GitMO'd

looks like over the past couple of decades pesticide use has gone down, while herbicide use has gone up

herbicides are a type of pesticide, in fact they’re the most highly used pesticide there is. the main problem with increased herbicide use is reduced plant biodiversity which obviously has a serious effect on insects, birds etc. while this is hardly unique to gmo agriculture, afaict there seems to have been an increase in herbicide use due to farmers adopting gmo varieties of soy and corn and then spraying the shit out of them. some weeds have then developed their own resistance which has led to higher doses being applied. meanwhile it’s all just bank for monsanto et al as they supply both the seeds and the weed killer and the wider ecological implications are just being ignored

did you read the paper

only had the time to skim it but the environmental impact quotient they use doesn’t include the impact on plant biodiversity or habitat degradation - it’s more of a measure of toxicity - so it doesn’t really refute what i wrote

Here's a thread that can be used for discussion of GM food GM Food

i feel like i won this thread

"small business owners" can drink bleach

most of the ones i've worked for can, for sure

small business owners can hang out with coal miners at the blockbuster video.

i have less sympathy for "small business owners" after working for one who embezzled money from his employees

small business owners more like labor regulation wilfully ignoranters

They are the worst people in the world.

on the other hand my brother is literally a small business owner, though maybe we're not counting restaurants as "small businesses"

the dudes who own my local comic shop are "small business owners" but I don't think they have any other employees and they alternate getting high and running the store, so I give them a pass.

Our own jjusten is a small business owner, iirc. I think scott seward qualifies, too. they both seem better than the worst people in the world, but that's pure guesswork on my part.

There are definitely exceptions, but small businesses are where the vignette of exploitation plays out at its rankest and most vulgar. None of the corporate world's many layers of abstraction to fuzz the image--just a dickhead in a BMW 3-series bitching about having to pay his workers minimum wage.