Things you were shockingly old when you learned

Now I'm confused, because those sound the same to me - I had somehow picked upt he idea that it was ay-axe

woah back up now, is that how Ajax is supposed to be said??? presumably Ruud wouldn't have fucked that up.

I think the point is that he'd adjusted the pronunciation so Ian Wright or whoever could understand who he was talking about. It was always pronounced Aye-ax by our more sophisticated broadcasters, i.e., Barry Davies - where did we get that pronunciation from then?

ay-axe is correct

Right, your last post confused me. And Andrew.

my fault

Talking of being unable to pronounce football teams from far off and exotic lands, LOL @ Grennock Morton.

... and High-bernians.

(I once discussed Gullit's pronunciation with a Dutch colleague, who assured me that he was in fact not Dunglishing (which was, and still is, my guess) but in fact saying Ajax the way Surinamese people say Ajax.)

MW10's usage note, to me, does a good job describing the situation with "forte" without coming down on a side.

In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯr-tē\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived 2forte. Their recommended pronunciation \ˈfȯrt\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would pronounce it more similar to English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \ˈfȯ-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯt\ predominate; \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \fȯr-ˈtā\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.

Bold bit is key. I'm very much not a prescriptivist, but in my writing and editing work I try to know the audience and anticipate how they'll react to things. I often have to write things that are way stuffier than I'd like, either because of house style or a tight-assed client.

I have never heard a British person (or as far as I recall anyone) saying "that's not my \ˈfȯt\", for whatever that's worth.

I've only heard it that way from insufferable pedants (usually discussing this very topic), but unfortunately I don't live a pedant-free lifestyle

does single syllable 'fort' sound too close to 'fault' anyway?
& I think I have only ever heard it pronounced forté

(I once discussed Gullit's pronunciation with a Dutch colleague, who assured me that he was in fact not Dunglishing (which was, and still is, my guess) but in fact saying Ajax the way Surinamese people say Ajax.)

― Tim, Friday, May 25, 2018 2:22 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nah, Surinamese people say Ay-axe the way Dutch people say it, too.

especially when people with "normal" Australian accents switch to a nasal ocker for those two words, just to make the point that they're not saying nothing posh or fruity, alright?

otm, this is a pervasive and shitty attitude and i hate it

Hmmmm, I may be completely mistaken, but in the US it's written and pronounced "lounge" as a matter of course. That version is so embedded in our vocabulary, I don't think most people here even consider the French spelling/pronunciation. For example, you only see it spelled "lounge" in furniture stores here. I don't think I've even ever heard it pronounced otherwise here. Not sure it's reflective of any current attitude.

Yeah I had half an idea he was talking arse. But (a) I'm not about to start correcting Dutches on their pronunciation and (b) it's always complicated innit?

It's true I am very used to hearing British people whine "it's not my fault", perhaps I'm getting mixed up.

surely you don't pronounce the "t" in "turbot"??

The final T is always pronounced in UK English. I think UK English tends to anglicise adopted French words more than US English(?) This is purely based on some US colleagues who say things such as "naiveté", whereas here (UK) we'd just say "naivety".

See also “garage”

How do you pronounce “charcuterie” in BrE

I get IR about lazy American pronunciation of French words and phrases (no-tur daym!) but my own French pronunciation is perfectly atrocious so who's the real monster here, basically.

it's only Nee-chee that really does my head. him and Van Go

charred cuties

a student quoted Frederik Nicci in his final paper this semester

The etymology on dictionary.com says turbot was adopted into English in the 13th century, so Americans presumably just pronounce it the French way to be fancy or something

nicci mane

mahb i suspect you're right

i'm trying to think of other examples. the only one i can gin up is "duvet" except British people actually DO say "duvay" i think

ah just remembered: "FILLET"

Christina Nicci

xp to self also dictionary.com, an American site, doesn't have the turbo pronunciation

ruhNAYsance

air-uh-poss-tuhl

Don Jewan

The final T is always pronounced in UK English

cachet, crochet, buffet

fillet is a weird one. it's even a different spelling.

gilet

(unless you say "gillit" like me because you are """funny""")

also bidet

See also “garage”

Gerard, Bernard...

I can never remember how french pronunciation works and end up firmly questioning myself if I'm in a french-speaking area before I finally just pronounce a menu item american english-style and point at it and look sorry

The final T is always pronounced in UK English

cachet, crochet, buffet

― ogmor, Friday, May 25, 2018 2:00 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You people are just weird.

For not pronouncing the final T in those words?

Paging Alison Moyet

i mean, sometimes you pronounce the T in buffet...

we've gone full circle back to Keeping Up Appearances

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashet

I meant the final T in turbot.

lol

I don't know why I never knew before today that Allan Arbus and Diane Arbus were, you know, married.

So I was sure that it is "chaise longue" in Canada but I checked the sites of a few big furniture stores and they all spell it "chaise lounge" so I guess I'd been mentally substituting or something.

Wait some people pronounce it "tur-bott"?

All Ts are silent fyi.

I discovered this "forte is supposedly pronounced as one syllable" thing a while ago. I've never heard anyone say it either. Looking in Collins dictionary, I see it now claims it's an American pronounciation.

Chambers, more sensibly, does give the one-syllable pronunciation first but says that it's usually now two, and distinguishes between stressing the first or second syllable. I think stressing the second is what sounds silly and a bit 'Hyacinth Bouquet'.

Talking of which, I guess I use the dictionary when it suits me because someone on Twitter was outraged that his girlfriend pronounced floret what I consider to the correct way: stressing the first syllable, rather than the second, which sounds like a pseudo-French affectation to me. The dictionary agreed, but unfortunately most of his followers did not.

Grillin' with some urbo