The Jordan Peterson Thread

I just figured out this was a quote from someone on here and LOOOOOOOOL whut

$125K USD per year is not that fucking special of a household income in coastal cities, certainly not for a dude his age, and certainly not in the same order of magnitude as almost $10M USD which is what his Patreon donors are apparently providing him.

otm. and he secretly loves the soviet art, i think, because of the power fantasy. developmentall a teenager who found a snake oil formula.

wiki says he's been married for almost 30 years, curious how this extended brush with chaos has affected his deeply serious thought

Apparently Dad named her after Mikhail Gorbachev.

could he actually be a grifter, getting rich pretending to hate the thing he's always been? I know that's not at all a thing for older white guys to be doing these days, but

xpost tombot otm. I was about to look up what even first year associates make because I know 125k is definitely under. He has a phD, is ~55, gets published lives in Toronto. This is a normal fucking salary (if not under what I thought he would make).

A 'normal fucking salary' can change your life in some quarters.

fine fine fine for some people on this board it would change their lives, but for JP, who is a lifelong white male academic at elite universities, this is a normal trajectory of salary for him.

'life-changing' is perhaps a poor phrase, but yeah that money isn't going to take you terribly far in toronto

Yeah, I was using it in relation to Peterson himself, I didn't realize so many people would take it personally.

Yerac just forgot to discuss the context of the salary, let's calm down.

It's just the top 5th percentile in Canada, nothing special.

Snark aside, I take your point, Yerac.

Ha, and I was all looking up ivy league salaries for professors (in the approximate 200k range).

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.

“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”

There might arguably be something of a credible point here with regards to actually polygamous societies: https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war . I don't know how it would apply to ours, though.

And yeah, that salary would not be a life-changer within the context of Peterson's life, where he gets to publicly contemplate cultural warfare against the industry that employs him, but it would be in mine, which relates to my original point.

Well that first assumption he makes is false, the terrorist was angry at women. From here on out his idea crumbles, not that the original one makes sense.

Also thanks for the link Sund4r.

Overall, polygamy is in retreat. However, its supporters are fighting to preserve or even extend it. Two-fifths of Kazakhstanis want to re-legalise the practice (it was banned by the Bolsheviks). In 2008 they were thwarted, at least temporarily, when a female MP amended a pro-polygamy bill to say that polyandry—the taking of multiple hubands—would be allowed as well; Muslim greybeards balked at that.

I want to know more about that Kazakh female MP.

I love democracies where 2/5ths of the population get to decide what the law should be.

quick somebody make a lazy joke as if I don’t know where I fucking live

Meanwhile, he has raised his speaking fee from $15,000 in 2017 to $35,000 in 2018, according to the "Bring Jordan Peterson To Skidmore" Gofundme page.

Aghhh, while researching that I accidentally clicked on a video of him speaking.

speaking fees are the most horseshit thing in modern society

after Jordan Peterson

I don’t think any of this guy’s references to “monogamy” are in contrast to actual polygamist societies

Currently hate myself because I checked this out by watching a video clip of his with “polygamy” in the title and, as expected, he immediately derailed to “pair bonding” and started talking about things I’d associate with promiscuity or people who use “poly”as an identifier. As far as I know, societies with structured polygamy tend to frown upon casual sex, but one of the first things he did was to go on a mini-rant about how he doesn’t believe in casual sex.

He’s basically got the same “only good sex is within marriage” view as mainline christianity and

Well, hopefully he can get that revolutionary humanities program out before he dies from being so far up his own asshole he suffocates.

People out here really think “intellectual” means “is smart,” read some gramsci bro

— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) May 11, 2018

[reads three pages of Gramsci] more intellectuals should try to shop organic

— Roger Bellin (@rogerbellin) May 11, 2018

[looks up from upside-down copy of prison notebooks] today’s intellectuals are full of pesticides

— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) May 11, 2018

ah, Gramsci… my favorite of his writings is the Modern Prince pic.twitter.com/N2c6duAQIG

— Roger Bellin (@rogerbellin) May 11, 2018

It seems like Peterson and Douthat and their ilk look at the post-birth control world and say "We have birth control now, but it seems to have introduced some new societal problems, so let's just go back in time and pretend birth control doesn't exist." When in fact those pre-birth control world social mores were not some timeless ideal, they were just approaches to dealing with sex and mating in a time where there was no birth control. Today we have birth control, so it makes no sense to use pre-birth-control structures as a way of solving contemporary problems.

I mean I'm pretty pro-monogamy on the whole, but I don't think anyone has produced clearcut evidence that "Have a period of exploration and then settle down" is an inferior system to arranged marriages or remain celibate until marriage.

those pre-birth control world social mores were not some timeless ideal

true that, but in order to impose them as a societal norm in those times, they were often invoked as the strictures of a divine will, making them far more difficult to alter later on, when that divine power is still worshipped.

early on in history god's will was seen as more whimsical and changeable, more human-like and irrational, but when xtianity merged with Neo-Platonism, god slowly ossified into the monolithic monster we know today.

As Vir Das noted, it was also more common for people (especially girls) to get married as young teenagers at that time so the proscription on sex before marriage could have also served another social function.

Weird that Jordan Peterson's whole thing is lobsters, but he never suggests making men less violent by closing their hands with rubber bands

— rachel jane andelman 🔥 (@rajandelman) May 20, 2018

it has come to my attention that his fans may be concerned about actual polygamy in north america and now I am left wondering how many actual polygamists they think there are

man have you logged on to ok cupid lately

imo they are all on okcupid or in rural Utah

although I guess JP is in Toronto so the copious poly goths in the area might be throwing off his gauge

lol

re: okc there is a lot of polyamory but are you really encountering many polygamists?

no

BUT

i bet a lot of the polyamorists are closeted polygamists just waiting to spring the big news on their first fun 'encounter'

polygamists' favourite hangout in canada is in b0un7ifu1, british columbia guys

sorry

there was a documentary on them like 15 years ago on canadian tv (for some reason this makes me feel old)

might've been this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F474fXIyuls

haven't watched it since, but at the time i remember feeling like watching and hearing the women of that town talk was one of the saddest things ever

wiki says he's been married for almost 30 years, curious how this extended brush with chaos has affected his deeply serious thought

― mookieproof

just caught up on this thread and this post leveled lmao

Jeet Heer has some thoughts.

Peterson extolls classic Disney movies like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs as upholding primordial gender roles, but objects to Frozen for violating those norms. “It might be objected (as it was, with Disney’s more recent and deeply propagandistic Frozen) that a woman does not need a man to rescue her,” Peterson writes in 12 Rules of Life. “That may be true, and it may not. It may be that only the woman who wants (or has) a child needs a man to rescue her—or at least to support and aid her. In any case, it is certain that a woman needs consciousness to be rescued, and, as noted above, consciousness is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time (in the guise of both order and of the Logos, the mediating principle).”

The argument here is that Frozen is propaganda because it violates mythical tropes that have existed since “the beginning of time.” But are myths really so unwavering and static?

As it happens, there was another Canadian scholar who taught, as Peterson does, at the University of Toronto, who made it his life work to argue against this assumption. Like Peterson, Northrop Frye, who flourished as a scholar from the 1940s until his death in 1991, wrote cultural analysis that was shaped by the works of Jung, Eliade and Campbell. (Someday we’ll have a cultural history explaining why Jung is so popular in Canada. The Swiss psychologist’s fingerprints can also be seen in the works of novelists like Robertson Davies and Margaret Atwood as well as the cartoonist Dave Sim.) But Frye was critical of the “latent conservatism” of these mythologists.

https://newrepublic.com/article/148473/jordan-petersons-tired-old-myths

lord the world would be so sweet if all the petersonites were fryvians

consciousness is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time

I was recently reading Augustine and he says explicitly the opposite. I guess Augustine was brainwashed by SJWs!

If a feminist scholar said that the philosophy of consciousness has been tainted by patriarchal thinking and we need to overthrow the Cartesian paradigm, these guys would say that was insane and that philosophy is a neutral science. But saying it's symbolically masculine so you can attack Frozen, and apparently it's the smartest idea ever.

The 'argument by appeal to prejudice' has always been one of the most popular and successful rhetorical strategies because it does not require verifiable facts or attempt to change anyone's mind. It's dead easy and works a treat.

i skimmed that NYT piece and mygodhowunimportant

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/jordan-petersons-now-thats-what-i-call-music

ha

i'd be surprised if jord even liked music

he talks about music being a model for a harmonious mode of being all the time.

His Twitter av is an artwork he made called "the meaning of music"

lol

that's some vivaldi style thinking

tbh I actually submitted a Peterson thing to McSweeneys over the weekend too (which I don't think I've done since 2003), but they wrote back and said "We've already got one."

So here it is because I have nothing else to do with it.

JORDAN PETERSON'S 12 RULES FOR HANGING AT THE INDIE ROCK SHOW

1.Stand Up Straight With Your Shoulders Back
This tells everybody that even though you are in this den of slouchy betas and bicurious girls with purple hair, you are not of this den. You are only here because your friend Matt needed a ride and also it’s possible Megyn might show up.

2.Treat Yourself Like Someone You Are Responsible for Helping
For example, buy yourself a beer. Not PBR because you’re not a loser hipster with no money like all these cucks. Jesus, they don’t have Blue Moon? Fine, get a Sierra Nevada.

3.Make Friends With People Who Want the Best for You
If only. Everyone here obviously hates actual men. Where’s Megyn?

4.Compare Yourself to Who You Were Yesterday, Not to Who Someone Else Is Today
Especially not that douchebag over there with the beard and the vintage Pavement T-shirt who’s got himself surrounded by a practical coven of emasculators with lip piercings and … shit, is that Megyn? Oh. No, it's not.

5.Do Not Let Your Children Do Anything That Makes You Dislike Them
Like cut their hair so short that you can’t tell from the back if they’re a boy or a girl, because that’s really confusing when you’re waiting for the bathrooms and the hallway’s dark and smelly like it is in this place, and those chicks probably laughed at you or thought you were transitioning or something when you got in the wrong line.

6.Set Your House in Perfect Order Before You Criticize the World
Seriously, they have a poster on the wall left over from a Standing Rock benefit last year. Where do they think their electricity’s coming from? Fossil fuel, baby. Hypocrites.

7.Pursue What Is Meaningful (Not What Is Expedient)
Megyn is definitely not expedient. She hasn’t responded to a Facebook message in months and then you realized you weren’t even Facebook friends with her anymore. Probably she got hacked. She’s so smart, though. She was the only other person in the community college English class who’d heard of Ayn Rand. OK, she rolled her eyes, but turns out she hadn’t actually read any, she just needs time and the right guy. No wonder she hasn’t found him in this cesspool of gender dysfunction. Technically she has a boyfriend, but come on. When you were Facebook friends you saw a picture of him wearing one of those stupid pink hats.

8.Tell the Truth – or, at Least, Don't Lie
It was not a lie when you told Matt you didn’t hate this band. You say, “I don’t hate it” a lot, it shows that that’s high praise from a discerning man. You don’t hate this band. You’ve never heard of this band. They probably suck.

9.Assume That the Person You Are Listening to Might Know Something You Don't
The bartender with the stringy beard probably knows if Megyn’s been here tonight, it seems like everybody here knows everyone. Right now you’re listening to him tell the dykey girl in the tuxedo jacket about his new bike. He means a bicycle, not a motorcycle. Of course. When you get his attention you will get another Sierra Nevada and ask about Megyn, but you’ve been standing here for five minutes clearly holding a $20 and he hasn’t seen you yet even though you are literally right in front of him.

10.Be Precise in Your Speech
“Do you only serve shemales and lesbians or something?” It’s hard to see how the bartender misunderstood that as some kind of hate speech, all you wanted was a goddam beer. And to ask about Megyn. You hadn’t even noticed that big guy by the door until he grabbed you and threw you out.

11. Do Not Bother Children When They’re Skateboarding
Asshole punk almost ran you over. And the girl on the board behind him was Megyn but you didn’t realize it until she shouted “Watch where you’re going dipshit” at you.

12. Pet a Cat When You Encounter One on the Street
Did Matt even see you get thrown out? The hell with it, he can Uber. Oh hey, look there. Here, kitty. C’mere. It’s OK. No, don’t be scared. Here, let me … OUCH FUCK! Goddam it. Bitch!

yours is better tipsy