Friend Infected With Right Wing Brain Worms - What to Do?

love

love, man

I've heard it from the Beatles and now you but I'm suspicious because, y'know...wite dudes.

im trying to be better at remembering that americans on the board only think about america when they think about wites tbh, i really am

what u mean is american wite ppl, tho, i think

beyond as the default opportunity to play selfloathing wite guy or dudeloathing wite girl
rude! and inaccurate/reductive

I have heard that love is all you need, however I have also heard that it is a battlefield.

american wite ppl and mostly men for sure, but there's this weird crossover in this topic space where there's the infowars dude who lives in the uk, a gamergate guy who has never left malaysia, and a bunch of people I see on twitter who feel they have to weigh in but live in ontario or something but 99% of their conversations are about how great american conservatism is

here is some ComicsGate BS, right on cue:
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/jawbreakers-comic-comicsgate-antarctic/
― Neil S, Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:06 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My friend regularly converses with those guys on twitter :(

I’m not shocked or sad anymore, just angry at my friend for being such a goddamn idiot.

I don't really see anyone employing superficial self-loathing as a momentary white liberal hairshirt ITT FWIW.

love

love, man

― gneb farts (darraghmac), Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:43 AM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihaB8AFOhZo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV8JFj17AtY

i don't really see why mh is calling out dmac btw

i think while he posts things that require people to fill in the blanks, his posts make sense

ilx seems to resent the fact that dmac says things matter-of-factly and speaks based on facts -- maybe facts that belong to a different country, sure

there is an american centrism to ilx that borders on arrogance, as if the truths arrived at from the culture/minority wars going on in the u.s. are universal truths, and that there can't be talk of poorer eastern european countries or something (was going to name a more extreme example, but i'm not trying to sound radical here), because these non-u.s. examples are exceptions and/or they undermine american exceptionalism

i just read an article on semiotics that talks about the russell conjugation, and it strikes me that most ilxors would probably agree with each other if their posts were filled in with more context

but this talk of the same related things over and over leaves no room for talks on other things happening around the world with different dynamics

thats an ok post imo but i just wanna say i dont feel mh was calling anyone out itt

1) This thread was created specifically to discuss the impact that American comics people were having upon an American friend of an American poster, so apologies if the discussion itt has been a little US-centric.
2) ILX does not resent deems. Please.

not the thread for it, you're right

but still wondering where mh is coming from then

On the plus side, the internet's unstoppable Americanization, including that of the self-flagellating variety, has led to my spending less time online. There's only so many 'lol 'Muricans' you can drop before moving on to quieter pastures. A world really does exist out there, and not all of it needs to be parsed through Trump or Jim Crow or whatever.

I was aggravated that darragh was quietly sniping instead of calling out some genuinely bad posts or commenting on the enterprise tbh

we've independently reconciled our positions and are in general agreement

and pomenitul otm, apropos of my previous post about those across the globe jumping on gamergate/comicsgate/whatever I have no idea why, outside of an imaginary american cultural hegemony, these hucksters are acting like there is One Culture to comment on

maybe because it's the most profitable, although moreso in online cachet than in dollars

outraged tbh

thought you were retiring

love is wise fellas

Some say it is a razor, though. FYI.

it is strange. many many people take it for a game.

i say love
it is a flower

If you're looking for stories for, by, and about the adventures and travails of heterosexual men of Eastern European descent, you have basically the entirety of recorded history of Western literature to pick through.

Wait, Easterm European descent?

Those literarily prolific Slavs, Poles, Hungarians and Czechs!

I mean, great literary/cultural traditions to be sure, but if we're talking hegemony here surely Western European would fit better?

i mean, there is a clear difference between "eastern european descent" and "eastern europeans"

"eastern europeans" didn't stop existing after some moved out of eastern euroope

Look, I'm geographically dyslexic, give a guy a break.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPA-vlfXUAArKX2.jpg

i had a friend who got increasingly like this during the end of the obama admin, fueled, I think, by living in a shit backward go nowhere town where he couldn't get a job. then he got married and got a job and became much less insane, and then trump got into office and I swear he's almost a liberal now. people's personal situations really do play into their weird opinions. they take their own experience as symbolic of the entirety of the world experience. they begin to mistake their opinion for fact. i mean, not always, but this happens. I don't know what to do about it. It's sad.

oh but my point was: I just stopped speaking to him when he got nuts and conspiratorial and super right wing. I cut him off entirely. he came back a year and a half later, with his head sorted out (mostly) and I started talking to him again.

I don't really see anyone employing superficial self-loathing as a momentary white liberal hairshirt ITT FWIW.

― The lovely and talented Loretta Switt and the irascible Jamie Farr (Old Lunch)

my self-loathing is anything but superficial or momentary

Well, yeah. But my self-loathing is more because I'm me specifically.

I thought about this some more yesterday, in terms of my relative, boxedjoys people (who all seems reachable to me, maybe not Rangers kid but then thats a whole other thing!) and latebloomers friend, who also seems reachable - at least if you want them to be, maybe you don't and thats something only you know deep down! - and I dont want to critizie anyone for ostracizing or cutting someone out, you'll know way more about your particular situations than any of us, its not going to be a decision taken lightly!

It sounds like boxedjoys brother, with arguments in the pub, is 'normal', in terms of the interactions themselves (he's conceding things, which normal conversations, debates, and even arguments have) - i mean it sounds like he/you/both are actually listening to each other? thats a lot! It doenst sound like he's parroting pre-formatted viewpoints with the 'him' lost somewhere within?

with my relative, and perhaps latebloomers friend, and situations where you feel you're dealing with someone who's talking at you, making statements..I think there's two choices, one is absenting self from that particular conversation, "sorry pal, no idea" or try move it from the existential to the tangible. I'm not American but if it was like a Trump conversation, I'd try move it to 'what do you think the key states will be? how will he do in Wisconsin next time". With the Russia/Uk stuff, I moved it away from "Britain great do you support putin or something?" to 'what will Uk do, how will russia respond, how will we respond to that". The conversation becomes more a level playing field. some level of measurability about it as well, existential stuff is ultimately fruitless, I dont spend any of my time debating Jehovahs Witnesses on the doorstep, every second I spend doing that is a personal defeat

its a way of having a better conversation (if you want one that is), though like I said above, what Ive found in my own case is that because these are seen as 'details', they prefer to shift it back to the existential, to the bigger point. What Ive also realized with this, is not just that we're both judging/assessing something differently, but often we're not even judging the same thing, or the thing that I thought you were. Its like having an argument about what to do with the garden, and realizing halfway through, they don't even think there is a garden and I've made a big assumption right from the off

I'm reminded a little about JRM's recent interview about the Irish border. He hadn't been there or talked to anyone who lived there, and didn't see the need to. He'd spoken to 'some people', and didn't see the relevance of what any of this had. Because he believed he was right, unshakeably right, no doubts, black and white - getting involved in anything like that is just fannying around. If you're right with the big picture, the details will sort themselves, no need to bother wasting time on them, "it'll be fine'. The unflappable belief. Details are for the small people

Surprising how difficult it is to put this into words! Partly I think because when you have this big picture of a personal situation, and then you're trying to condense, inevitably it gets reduced and lots gets left out, and the everyone else sees something slightly different than what you intended because of that. Then it gets distorted because they're then thinking of other people and it doesn't quite map the same so before you even get to agreeing/disagreeing/processing others have a different picture in their head

i think thats another thing, I think so many arguments in life aren't with the person you're having the argument with, but someone else lurking in your head that you didnt get to have the argument with at the time. The person in front of you, they're often just filling in for that person, and they're close enough, they'll do

all of that!

Oh great

Ye olde solipsistic argument

Had a guest over tonight. I mentioned one little thing about the economy and he says Obama ruined the economy for 8 years. I looked at him square in the face and said "Get the fuck out of my apartment".

Am I doing it right?

— MK Genest 🌊 (@MKGenest) May 16, 2018

Don't follow the twitter thread. Just don't. There's no point. But the initial tweet made me laugh.

I mean...there's just no argument to be had in a situation like that. Once someone has embraced a demonstrable falsehood as, like, just their opinion maaaan, what more is there to say? I'm not going to waste time arguing with someone that the sky isn't actually forest green. If you've divorced yourself from basic consensus reality, good luck navigating the world and not dying prematurely from something entirely preventable, I guess.

Well the fire went out of this one alright!

I couldnt think exactly where to put this but I was thinking about Graeme Souness yesterday - not exactly as someone who has this in the thread, but in terms of my relative and the seeming rigidity of thought, where details are obfuscatory and detract from the greater whole.

I cant find the clip but theres probably a bunch of them, he was talking about some player and how they didnt work as hard or cover as much ground as some other player, and then he was called on it and said actually he 's covered MORE ground this season, if we look at the stats. He didn't like it at all, fired back "you know what I mean". of course stats can be misleading but the greater feeling was that he knew he was right, absolute certainty and no facts, details, debate, statistics were going to change that. His source of certainty was himself, his gut, and his certainty was absolute. Not only that, his view was greater than the other analysts views, because it was self-evident, and also because he was the best player, a natural order. I'm wary of stretching a point, but I'd put good money on GS not only being a Brexit voter, but conceptualizing it in the same way - his authority in football carrying over to everywhere. He is right because how could it be otherwise, its obvious, self-evident, anyone can see it and theyre kidding themselves if not

My relative has some of this, absolutely unshakability, if its cold outside, its cold outside. If it warms up? still cold. The difference is, I think with Souness (and JRM), its their core, its ingrained. They are right not just because they are right, but because they are better than you and nothing is going to change that, not some jumped up poindexter with a bunch of stats about distance covered per game, and not some other poindexter with some flannel about the Irish border. Just excuses, get it done, how hard can it be?

I think its sorta where a conceptual truth comes up against an tangible truth. perhaps a tangible truth is one that can be changed and is therefore less solid, and, weirdly, less tangible

Oh wow just googled Graeme Souness Brexit

https://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/19080006/cats27.jpg

If you don't know who he is, he NEVER looks like that!

bah

https://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/19080006/cats27.jpg

https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article10207197.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/MPP_LEC_061015_Blackstuff_10.jpg

"You're Graham Souness.... you look like me"

lol @ those pearly whites, what is the Souness mindset?

Here's the clip, its brilliant - never seen him so happy before when he gets to it. Missed this completely till just now

souness speaks his brexit brains pic.twitter.com/X7Ts3rk6xD

— Ken Early (@kenearlys) April 18, 2017

Kevin Kilbanes look halfway through clip as well!

he was talking about some player and how they didnt work as hard or cover as much ground as some other player, and then he was called on it and said actually he 's covered MORE ground this season

Wasn't Charlie Adam was it?

re: Souness, never trust a man who looks younger at 65 than he did at 25

he looks like the lovechild of dale winton and david warner in that screengrab anvil posted

he was good mates with dale winton!