Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

Isolation definitely plays a role; it’s why living in a small town or rural area is bad for you.

Call it the "bubba bubble."

We need an immediate program to re-house the young males of exurban/rural Ohio in Brooklyn.

from the bbc article:

It's OK to be nervous, but it's also OK to have the desire to want to be with someone. All of these feelings are part of humanity, and if you deny yourself that then you deny yourself part of a human experience.

this actually hits the nail on the head

just to iterate what others have already said, most of the stuff i read from incels makes them sound like they are very removed from reality and have clustered into this group that reinforces their negative thoughts

there is a lot of confirmation bias

on occasion i watch one or two incel youtubers, and i'm left speechless at the things they say and how they experience the world and their relationship with women

not being interested in sex or being asexual is fine, of course, but to believe that this position says some greater truth about society is misguided. it takes all types, as the saying goes, and it's about respecting different ways of life

however, i will say i strongly believe we are sexual and social creatures. if we observe other animals, we see that so are they. in fact, some studies suggest we are promiscuous creatures and the only thing holding us back is a conscience and a constructed morality system. and it works pretty good for most people. but there is an undeniable need for sex and socializing that i think, generally, most people need

hey

there is no need for sex

if there's a "need" for it then you're "entitled" to it and all people "deserve" it

food, shelter, safety, these are needs we all are entitled to and deserve (whether or not the world is meeting those needs is another thing, but)

there is no need for sex

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/MaslowsHierarchyOfNeeds.svg/640px-MaslowsHierarchyOfNeeds.svg.png

need doesn't necessarily denote entitlement. i need physical affection and sex in order to live a fulfilling life. i don't think that because i have this need that i am entitled to it. i mean if we're being pedantic of course i don't really need sex as it is not water, food or shelter which if we're being super literal are the only things i actually need.

alright maybe im getting too spicy. i just don't think the word "need" does us any favours given the way a lot of dudes think about sex

its an unhelpful reaction youre having there imo

people need sex, like they need love, affection and respect. so yes

We need an immediate program to re-house the young males of exurban/rural Ohio in Brooklyn.

― bed, bath, and beyond the thunderdome (Ye Mad Puffin)

from here it seems so impossible. i managed to relocate myself from indiana to portland and my life is so much better for that, but the situation is already spiralling out of control here, too many people, not enough space for them. i want so badly for other people to be able to get out from middle america.

Or make middle America into someplace that people aren't desperately trying to escape.

Middle America has cities too!

am i entitled to food and water?

last i checked i had to pay for them

:-(

sorry that’s an uneccessary tangent

Middle America has cities too!

― valorous wokelord (silby)

yes, crushed under the iron boot of rural post-agrarian meth-heads

I was just kidding! nickn and silby are right - the solution is to spread the good things about urbanity (diversity, cultural interchange) inward, not to further hollow out the interior.

the thing you get a lot of in the midwest cities that you don't here on the west coast is decay. democratic values like "diversity" and "cultural interchange" are good but tend to pale next to the decay. as far as i can tell the way things are going you get to be san francisco or you get to be detroit.

It should be pointed out that in Detroit you can afford a house; in San Francisco, nobody can.

hahaha, i wasn't raising san francisco up as a paragon to aspire to

lots of decay in los angeles and to a greater extent outside of it

my general impression is that people in america who live outside the cities hate the cities, and would like to see them destroyed. i feel that if given political power, which tends to be the effect of gerrymandering, these groups will use that power to pursue that end in preference to the betterment of their own lives.

until and unless the rural domination engendered by gerrymandering can be reversed, my best advice to anybody who lives in one of those states remains "get out".

...into the country and vote blue!

People can be manipulated so easily through anger and resentment. I bet those country folks sure wouldn't knowingly vote to degrade the extensive road networks, electrical grid and phone networks they depend on, and which are largely subsidized by the concentrated economic strength of urban areas. It's similar to the republicans doing their damnedest to destroy the postal service, when no corporate delivery service has any interest in serving the most isolated rural customers in their districts.

Well, the main difference between UPS and USPS is that UPS only has to drive to your house when somebody wants to send you something.

USPS has to go to almost every house in America almost every day, whether or not they have to. Even if you don't have incoming junk mail, they are obligated to check if you have outgoing mail.

Another example of the government doing the stuff that no private entity has an incentive to do. Which is exactly why we have a government. That is the main reason I like government: it is there to do the stuff that nobody else wants to do.

wtf

is that true

your post service comes looking for mail

thats insane

american exceptionalism strikes again

Don't get too excited. They don't ring your doorbell and ask; you can just leave outgoing mail in your mailbox and when they put your mail in it, they'll take away anything you've left.

And you have to have correct postage on it, obviously.

us poor fuckers on this side of the atlantic have to schlep to the nearest postbox and/or post office, don't knock it

I advocate schlepping one's mail to the post office with a steady gait, a cheerful mien, and a persevering attitude. Unless otherwise indicated, of course.

You have to put the orange flag up too iirc, so they know it’s not just old mail in your box.

https://goo.gl/images/Wp8quR

that flag is red imo

in the maleness thread all flags are red

You know, it's funny; when you look at someone through yellow-colored glasses, all the red flags just look orange.

dammit now i have "o tannenbaum" stuck in my head

IME relatively few people under 60 or so use their household mailbox for outgoing mail. But still the mail carrier comes. Almost every day. Almost every house. For something like 200 years. It's a work of quiet incremental beauty.

For most USians, 98% of the time you're just getting junk advertising and credit offers and bills. Unless your social circle is made up of stubborn luddites who write a lot of physical letters, your mailbox is mostly useful for few holiday cards and something from yr mom on your birthday. Maybe.

Of course, it would be way more efficient and sensible for everything to switch the the UPS/FedEx model, where the mail carrier comes to your house only when you've received something that you yourself actually want. But that's not the world we inhabit. There's this whole infrastructure in place, and whole industries built around using/exploiting it.

More stories collected by the BBC about living without sex:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-44143003

The regularity or arrival of sex is overrated. It’s not like if there’s a dry spell or lack you’re worthless

Too much valued placed on sex imo

It’s kind of important if you want a relationship/family/kids.

Well, yeah

No disagreement there, just saying it’s sad how it makes some people feel shitty

Yes, agree there.

It’s quite an interesting collection of short accounts (male and female) and brings out a near consensus about feelings of shame of having no dating experience.

It sneaks in a sad and guilty lol as well:

There was an instance when a friend of mine kept attempting to put a move on me and in order to keep that separation I, knowing that she was allergic to peanuts, began carrying around Snickers bars and making a great show of snacking on them.

If you think of sex as something much broader than just having an orgasm then I think it's easier to understand why the absence of physical intimacy makes people feel sad in ways that masturbation isn't an adequate substitute for.

Lol xpost to Luna

Also nv otm

Also something that prostitutes won't be a sub for, to address something way upthread.

Also something that prostitutes won't be a sub for, to address something way upthread.

― nickn

this really confused me until i realized you meant "substitute" and not "submissive"

Self-defined 'incels' aren't looking for intimacy, though.

course not but I was talking about the BBC article upthread. got no interest in angry internet dorks of any stripe at the moment tbh.