Avengers: Infinity War

walt simonson's great gift to the MCU.

well, one of many

fuckin love that guy

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/movies/avengers-infinity-war-review.html

Directed by Joe and Anthony Russo, scrappy fraternal climbers up the 21st-century Hollywood ladder, “Infinity War” is a chunk of matter in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, a vast entity that long ago expanded beyond the usual boundaries of sequelization and brand extension. This synergistic expression of the corporate interests of Marvel Studios and the Walt Disney Company — which now include 19 feature films and much else besides — has come to be less a creative or commercial undertaking than an immutable fact of life, like sex or the weather or capitalism itself.

That makes the franchise hard to criticize. You can’t really be for or against Marvel (in spite of the conspiracy theories of some DC fans), and you can’t quite opt out of it either. They don’t call it a universe for nothing: Where else are we going to go? So we make our zigzagging ways, picking out our favorite planets and solar systems, accepting a baseline of tedious, standardized dead space that makes the brighter constellations seem disproportionately fresh and surprising. “Guardians of the Galaxy” was so funny and weird. Not like a superhero movie at all. Same with “Thor: Ragnarok.” Captain America is such a complicated guy. “Black Panther” gave audiences so much to root for and talk about.

'a baseline of tedious, standardized dead space', followed by raves for almost every Marvel movie from the past few years. Okay, guy.

Can't wait for all the haterade hot takes!

pour one out for the sensible reviewers getting their inboxes pummeled by Marvel fanboys rn

(jerking off motion)

yes, that is a v good impression of the latter group

I'm an unapologetic Zombie and love these movies but I don't think a one of them has reached (or strived to reach) the peak of Cinematic Excellence and welcome sensible criticism that actually reckon with the movie taking place on the screen. But let's be real: a lot of the criticism will be of the 'NOT another SUPERHERO movie, barf me out!' variety rather than a reasonable assessment of the film on its own terms.

(See: most of the anti-MCU criticism on this very borad.)

it seems like for most fans "on its own terms" means something very specific and restrictive

I've always argued in favor of judging art (or 'art' if you must) in terms of its success at doing what it appears to be trying to do. I'm not going to judge a four-hour Vietnamese drama about someone's dying cousin making pho for the last time on its lack of epic, city-leveling action scenes.

I bet you are, though

i would watch the shit out of that movie, honestly

(the one that combines the two, that is)

That makes the franchise hard to criticize. You can’t really be for or against Marvel

yeah, there's no way at all to be against the ongoing labour practices of a company whose entire history is based on enormously exploiting the creativity of freelancers without due recompense, and that is actively, destructively hostile to both of their core distribution systems & retail "partners"

(jerking off motion)

pvmsic

My eyes are open and I will consume only cage-free non-GMO superhero movies from here on.

Does anybody remember laughter?

Does anybody?

I've always argued in favor of judging art (or 'art' if you must) in terms of its success at doing what it appears to be trying to do

This is fine as long as it's something along the the lines of "I am judging this horror film as a horror film," but that's a very different statement from "it is only acceptable to judge MCU movies in terms of how they relate to other MCU movies, and also you have to think the MCU is a worthwhile project in order to pass acceptable judgment," which seems to be the baseline requirement for most of the MCU commentariat. (Not saying that applies to anyone here necessarily)

'a baseline of tedious, standardized dead space', followed by raves for almost every Marvel movie from the past few years. Okay, guy.

Raves? tbf, the NYT reviewer said, "accepting a baseline of tedious, standardized dead space that makes the brighter constellations seem disproportionately fresh and surprising." {italics added} Those raves were meta-raves, illustrating the disproportionate praise being cited in the prior sentence.

But then, who really cares? The films get watched and make a lot of money, regardless of whatever criticism is aimed at them. The Plain People think they are likeable enough.

I'd argue that there is an extent to which reasonable criticism of a single MCU movie does have to reckon with its existence in the broader MCU. I get it if that doesn't feel like a worthwhile pursuit, but for better or worse this is kind of a pioneering experiment into creating a broad web of interrelated films, so judging any one of them as a failure when separated from the larger context is, on the one hand, valid but, on the other hand, increasingly like focusing on how well a single television episode succeeds without actually seeing how well it fits into the season/series as a whole.

TBH, while I love the success of the MCU, I do kinda miss the days when the general public's engagement with superhero comics was limited to the biannual revelation that WHIZ! POP! COMICS AREN'T JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE!

I'd argue that there is an extent to which reasonable criticism of a single MCU movie does have to reckon with its existence in the broader MCU

"reckon with," sure. "see inherent value in," nah

I get it if that doesn't feel like a worthwhile pursuit

yeah sorry again I'm thinking more of the passerby chuds I see on twitter and in comments sections

"it is only acceptable to judge MCU movies in terms of how they relate to other MCU movies, and also you have to think the MCU is a worthwhile project in order to pass acceptable judgment," which seems to be the baseline requirement for most of the MCU commentariat.

that's how I judge Adam Sandler movies

xpost IGI, my dude.

If somebody would have told me 10 years that they were going to make a series of 19 interconnected superhero movies and that I (and other people too, I guess) would still be interested in seeing them I would have thought that was very unlikely. So in that sense, the MCU has very much surpassed expectations, for me at least. I would never argue that these are masterpieces, but even that they are mostly pretty good seems like a huge accomplishment.

For sure. For those who are actually fans of the material, it's easy to forget that we suffered through decades of almost nothing but bullshit movie adaptations. I didn't even give the MCU a shot until Thor because I just assumed it would be more of the same garbage.

that they are mostly pretty good seems like a huge accomplishment.

$200+ million per movie can still buy you some decent talent, even these days.

and yet almost every $200m movie is horrible

Let's just admit this movie is terrible and get back to the fellatio

This movie is horrific garbage for which we, as a culture that didn't do everything in its power to prevent, should be deeply ashamed.

Now cram that thing in my mouth, brother.

removing bookmark from this thread because i need neither spoilers or haters

But wait, I wasn't done telling you how much better I am than the audience for this dumb movie I have no intention of seeing! No fair.

TBH, while I love the success of the MCU, I do kinda miss the days when the general public's engagement with superhero comics was limited to the biannual revelation that WHIZ! POP! COMICS AREN'T JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE!

― .38 Special K - 'Hold On Muesli' (Old Lunch), Wednesday, April 25, 2018

fuck no

the genius of the MCU was to recognize that "comic book" was not a genre in itself defined by tropes like GOOFY and OOH PRIMARY COLORS and IT DOESN'T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE.

what the MCU takes from comics is what has made it successful: serialized fiction capable of moving across genres from installment to installment

I agree completely. But also the comics themselves have been doing that for decades, and also it was nice when people-at-large didn't feel compelled to opine on a thing they never gave and still don't give a shit about.

I think the longing for having your interests being a little more obscure and "novel" to the masses is understandable. Because entertainment is sometimes an escape, and having it omnipresent kind of kills that.

It's reminiscent of the days when a much smaller portion of the population was involved in working in information technology and I could go to a bar, have some drinks, and have a next-to-zero chance that I'd hear anything that sounded like work. Now, I go nearly anywhere and there's about a fifty percent chance some dude is harping on about databases within earshot.

It's always the dumbest takes that you overhear, too.

MCU is successful because it is all post-Star Wars prequels filmmaking with bluescreen and cgi and all that, the framework for doing all that visually intensive stuff and post production is already there.

prior to that there were still tons of comic movies out, they just didn't have the production quality. imo this is the biggest difference, it's mostly the right place and the right time. the writing is decent too, which helps, but i don't think they are revolutionizing so much as synthesizing filmmaking & marketing trends.

which isn't a bad thing, in fact it's great, and a lot of the movies are hella fun. certainly more fun than most of the random comic movies of the 90s (though something like the og TMNT film is still a hallmark).

as far as "comics aren't for kids anymore" yeah i remember when Burton's Batman came out, that was a big part of it, the gothic dark look, the Prince sountrack, that aint new...

"pow zoom comics aren't just for kids anymore" was a very tired cliche by 1989

remember when marvel’s pitch from around the time they became marvel was talking about college kids who were into psychedelic images and surreal stories? me neither, because it was old by the time I was born

but you could still buy comics on a newsstand, at least

sucks that Black Widow doesn't have her red hair anymore

Tbh i can see this movie being a letdown so i plan to get reaaaaalllyyy high first

Marvel movies remind me of certain kinds of antidepressants I’ve been on. They maintain a status quo that is functional and agreeable but never allows true highs or lows.

that is a good way to boil down my distaste for these movies (I saw most of 'em up to the second Avengers; only the third Iron Man had a detectable flair and even then I barely remember anything about it)

the three most recent marvel movies (spider man, thor, black panther) were the best yet, but i don't really see the new one topping those. but if you stopped after the second avengers it might be a good idea to dip into the post civil war ones

sometimes I forget, then re-remember, that Justin Theroux has the sole writing credit on the worst of these (that I've seen)

I thought that one was fine but didn’t really lean into having a distinct voice, pretty much an echo of the first plot-wise