2008 Primaries Thread 3: The Rejecting and Denouncening

a pass

ass pass

The idea that now is the time to go over the failings of the Clinton presidency is equally bizarre

I mean yeah there are lessons to learn I guess and there's no benefit in sugarcoating him but there's only so much time in the day

what i don't understand is why it isn't personally or publicly embarrassing for three senators to not do their supposedly important jobs for like a whole year

if the election process actually worked and focused on substantive issues it would be a worthy sacrifice.

If Clinton is using her First Lady experience as an integral part of her argument to voters, that she has walked in the corridors of power and knows where the restrooms are, whatever -- then I think it is legitimate to assess the accomplishments of the Clinton administration, sure.

yes

The idea that now is the time to go over the failings of the Clinton presidency is equally bizarre

i disagree. there's a major presidential candidate running right now who calls frequently on the merits that administration as a reason for her capacity to govern.

*of that administration

If Clinton is using her First Lady experience as an integral part of her argument to voters, that she has walked in the corridors of power and knows where the restrooms are, whatever -- then I think it is legitimate to assess the accomplishments of the Clinton administration, sure.

yea exactly. sorry didn't read this before i posted

The idea that now is the time to go over the failings of the Clinton presidency is equally bizarre

uh you do know there's a Clinton running for president right? one who constantly refers back to the Clinton years as her "experience" and as an example of the kind of presidency she would run?

and besides, I was just trying to answer a direct question, I didn't bring it up.

(er x-post_

Tracer you are pulling the "I don't understand" + "Who cares, so much more important things" double whammy of shitty internet debating tactics... You can do better.

Just out of interest, Gavin, do you post elsewhere on ILX?

also keeping in mind that there would likely be a lot of staff continuity between Clinton administrations, and the style of management would likely be the same

also, you could wear jeans in the white house again

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/us/politics/26cnd-mccain.html?ei=5088&en=91119d977f91346f&ex=1364270400&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1206554771-v0/vwjcLN8hc+jUcoSGf7w

mccain says US should honor its moral obligations to iraqis, close guantanamo, listen to the rest of the world, propose greenhouse emissions cap.

empty appeasement made possible by the glimpse of "chickens coming home to roost" radical leftism everyone just got? just your standard international political talking points? (would romney be making them?)
or have we forgotten that, in some ways, when relieved of the task of desperate pandering, mccain really isn't bush?

Suzy, mostly in the political threads.

listen to the rest of the world

lolz

bush said samey things

i'm thinking that after the last contest there's just gonna be a big chunk of supers flocking to obama, to such an extent that it won't be possible for hillary to stay in.

OTM the waiting is I think a combination of Let's Let the Voters Speak Before We Do sanctimony and trying to determine the point one's declaration of support will be most appreciated by Obama.

^^^not 4 years ago; 8 maybe. xpost

also, you could wear jeans in the white house again

-- elmo argonaut, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:14 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Did this apply to tours?

^^^not 4 years ago; 8 maybe

9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING DO U C

ok, forget the rest, but isn't 'close guantanamo' sort of a significant break? (it might just be the standard distancing-from-failure tactic that forced even bush to eventually ditch rumsfeld, but remember that romney wanted to 'double' g'mo a few month ago).

jon, i remember reading way back that the clinton white house relaxed the dress code aggressively, which would have made the clinton administration one of the leading examples of 90s business casual, that fashion crime against humanity.

how about if Clinton & Gore hadn't been such mealymouthed 'centrist' shits, Dubya wdn't have come close to stealing the 2000 election?

sorry i don't buy that at all

if gore hadn't sighed at the wrong times he would have won that shit

hey guess what - shit in Iraq is about to blow up just in time for the US GE

I am SHOCKED.

if you're suggesting that "shit blowing up in iraq" is somehow good for mccain or the gop, you're crazy

how about if Clinton & Gore hadn't been such mealymouthed 'centrist' shits, Dubya wdn't have come close to stealing the 2000 election?

Bill won in '92 by NOT running as a liberal and won in '96 because he successfully painted himslef as a centrist and Gingrich/Congress/Republicans as wingnut ideologues ready to shut down the governmment.

if you're suggesting that "shit blowing up in iraq" is somehow good for mccain or the gop, you're crazy

quite the opposite, actually

yes Michael, and what did all of that get him and us, besides Dick Morris and triangulation? and Gore chanting "I agree" to W in debates?

there's been some grousing on this thread that the war "going well"/"winding down" would benefit McCain and/or Hilz and paint Obama into a corner as a defeatist/weak on defense, etc. My argument all along, however, has been that in all likelihood shit will get worse in Iraq right before the election because the Iraqi insurgents want to see someone in the WH who will pull out asap - and the best way to ensure that is to maintain and/or turn US public opinion against the war by making shit in Iraq as fucked up as possible. I sort of hate to say it, but the worse things get in Iraq, the better positioned Obama will be to win the election.

x-post

and what did all of that get him and us, besides Dick Morris and triangulation?

It got us Ginzburg and Breyer for starters, the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, an increased minimum wage in '96, a couple good vetoes, including on initial welfare reform proposals coming out of Gingrich's Congress, the first real attempt for Universal Health Care in a generation, and the first budget surplus since '69.

the idea that we should give clinton as pass bc gwb is so awful is sort of bizarre to me

-- max, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:04 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

a pass

-- max, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:05 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ass pass

-- max, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:05 PM

thanking u for making the important connections

I mean, considering how nuts the Republicans under Gingrich were in the 90's, having a triagulatin' MOR Democrat in the Oval Office was better than having another loser out of it.

the first real attempt for Universal Health Care in a generation,

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/penguinking3/fail.jpg

MW, what was won by the triangulation? Your list of accomplishments is pretty tenuous and small for 8 years in the WH.

I think what some people (including myself) are saying is that if we are happy with toned-down Repubs for Democrats as the "left" party, then that's exactly what we'll get.

quite the opposite, actually

right, ok. misread "SHOCKED" as if you thought Bush meant to do that or something

jon, i remember reading way back that the clinton white house relaxed the dress code aggressively, which would have made the clinton administration one of the leading examples of 90s business casual, that fashion crime against humanity

This was truly awful – jeans with long shirts and ties! The only good thing to emerge from the Bush years is the realization that presidents should go to bed early and take long vacations, not hang out eating pizza with the staff.

God Alfred I mean that's a cute stance to take at all but you don't actually give one tiny political shit about it, do you? I mean honestly?

*& all

This was truly awful – jeans with long shirts and ties! The only good thing to emerge from the Bush years is the realization that presidents should go to bed early and take long vacations, not hang out eating pizza with the staff.

wau

well, i guess gwb did make a very good employee for Cheney for a coupla years

God Alfred I mean that's a cute stance to take at all but you don't actually give one tiny political shit about it, do you? I mean honestly?

John, I'm entitled to a few yuks after speaking my peace; but I AM serious about the jeans and ties.

I'm the kind of executive who likes some distance between myself and my employees, but not for the bullshit Reagan-Dubya reasons for always dressing up in the Oval Office, i.e. "I don't want to disgrace the office of Jefferson and Lincoln."