rolling trump-russian collusion

sb giving away company secrets

it's the collusion thread, i can't help it

too insidery

lmao

Retract every single news article that cited Hamilton68 to claim Russian bots are doing x. Here are its creators admitting it's all bullshit.https://t.co/sTkHQXsLmq pic.twitter.com/VYkzErIP7E

— Sam Sacks (bot) 🤖 (@SamSacks) February 28, 2018

I found the interview with Masha Gessen and NYTimes' Adrian Chen on NPR this morning really annoying. The premise was that Russian interference, while real, was overblown. Gessen took the stance that it's ridiculous that "sub-literate" Russia trolls would have such a decisive effect on the American public (which ignores the fact that much of America is equally sub-literate, which the internet makes clear, and also voluntarily propagates the same sort of shit the Russians pushed) and that we should focus on bigger things (which is probably true but doesn't negate the effect of Russian interference). Chen, likewise, was skeptical, for similar if more neutral reasons, and yet, in describing his reluctance to wade into this debate, essentially conceded the effectiveness of information warfare. And both sort of elide over the prima facia evidence that *Russia was trying to influence Americans*, so clearly they believed, even if it wasn't absolutely effective, it was certainly worth a shot. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered, though as a couple of those interviews with indicted players shows, the Russians didn't try very hard and were as amused by their possible success.

Just so annoying. There is a lot going on right now, on numerous fronts, big and small, and they are not mutually exclusive. Trump Inc., Wikileaks, Russia - these can all be independent actors whose Venn diagrams occasionally overlapped and potentiated their somewhat aligned goals: Trump Inc. was desperate for a leg up in the election, Wikileaks was vindictive, Russia wanted to make trouble. Everything together likely magnified the effect of all of these things independently.

The banality of effective disruptive social media

it's not necessarily that it's *russia* that bothers me (though oh my god it's *russia*!) but that candidate trump and his team cooperated with them in exchange for sanctions relief, and while president trump hasn't been able to deliver yet, he refuses to impose further bipartisan sanctions, and he's obstructed the investigation into election interference from the jump. the GOP going along with this farce is every bit as horrible as watergate, reagan's various pre- and post-election iranian shenanigans, the brooks brothers riot (in the state candidate bush's brother was governor!), the bullshit bush v. gore supreme court decision, the deceit campaign that led us into iraq part ii, the birth certificate, and BENGHAZI. "conservative" politics is a giant zit on the face of lady liberty; if this russia probe can lance it, bravo. i'm not holding my breath of course because all this propaganda is in smoke screen service to cover up for the neo-feudalist voodoo economics revolution that's been in full effect since at least the powell memo was circulated, and the dark money lords (via ALEC, Fox, the NRA and their ilk) have brainwashed legions of bigots into their voting base, who'd eat glass before admitting they've ever been wrong about anything political

I'm not sure Gessen is wrong, but while it's probably giving into prejudice, my propaganda detector is always on low hum with any prominent Russian-American public intellectual/commenter like Gessen

That Sam Sacks idiot is on his timeline desperately spamming every reporter about “Hamilton68”, as though those innocuous quotes vindicates him for being wrong for months about the entire Russia story being a “hoax”. He’s another one of those guys that if you only got his version of the story you wouldn’t be aware that there have been indictments etc.

my propaganda detector is always on low hum with any prominent Russian-American public intellectual/commenter like Gessen

yes, this is giving into prejudice.

Gessen has been pretty reasonable compared to other skeptics on this. If you followed her reactions over the months she’s acknowledged the reporting, increasing evidence and adjusts accordingly. Like she use to question that Russia was behind the hacks and now sees it differently. Understandable concern about it being overblown maybe serves some faulty conclusions.

Chen’s recent piece about it was really interesting because he makes the point about not wanting to be used in either side of the debate. He seemed just as annoyed by how he was retweeted by Aaron Mate as what MSNBC expected him to say about the troll farms.

gessen is a v prominent putin critic, i don't think we should assume that every single russian person is somehow secretly plotting to spread pro-russian "propaganda"

I'm not sure Gessen is wrong, but while it's probably giving into prejudice, my propaganda detector is always on low hum with any prominent Russian-American public intellectual/commenter like Gessen

― Moo Vaughn, Thursday, March 1, 2018 7:33 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're a clown

he's gonna get caught, just you wait and see

my propaganda detector squeals like a pig when moogabbneb posts

you know who else squeals like a pig

(with the usual provisos that you should run down shit you see on twitter yourself) it sure does look like the set of dem mercenary fake-woke lunkheads i've grown to detest over the past 24 months have benefited greatly from message-amplifying bots

Dear confused journalists: I found the bots you have been looking for. They amplify trolls. They impersonate. They spam. They are funded by oligarchs. What more could you want in a story?

And unlike @SecureDemocracy, I have actually shown my work. Gather round.

— liking online (@likingonline) March 1, 2018

who could have guessed

stoopid libs are like
https://i.imgflip.com/25kdf6.jpg

Masha Gessen is good and trustworthy and reasonable.

gessen is a v prominent putin critic

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, March 1, 2018 7:33 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm aware. Not a superfan like my partner, but have read her, seen her speak, etc.

so her open Putin criticism, her being the most prominent international voice regarding LGBT issues in Russia - not to mention one of the few openly queer people in Russian public life - isn't enough to make you think she might not be in the bag for Putin anyway?

Perhaps foregoing a slightly fuller explanation in withdrawal from the earlier ad hominem, I'll say for ow that while my impression of her is largely that of a thoughtful, highly reasoned, highly authentic, and brave intellectual who happens to engage in some of the same questioning of her own 'side' that I do (recently drawing fire from progressives over some of her comments on #metoo), and probably more careful questioning of her own positions than I do, I nevertheless don't regard her (or most people) completely unquestioningly, nor do I regard discussion of LGBT issues in Russia as always inconsistent with the interests of a Putin/FSB regime that like some domestic actors props up anti-LGBT Islamists as bogeymen justifying repressive internal measures and foreign adventurism. Open criticism of Putin, as you say, is perhaps-much harder to square with the notion that the critic is actually acting in his/their interest, but it's hardly impossible to do so, as should be understood by anyone familiar with the concept of concern trolling or who may have charged someone nominally left of center with actually acting on behalf of what are not truly progressive interests; expressing such sentiment could provoke buy-in from Putin critics who would not otherwise listen to a message intended to shape understanding of and response to his/their regime. This low-level lack of trust is admittedly expressive of a certain paranoia regarding another nation-state that may be anti-intellectual in nature and a byproduct of larger personality typology/history, but one directed towards what is itself a paranoid state whose government is expressly in conflict with our national interest as per its leader's statement this morning. Gessen herself acknowledges that this sort of suspicion is in fact shared by some Russians - https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/may/30/why-did-boston-marathon-bombers-do-it-interview-masha-gessen.

Line breaks man wtf, have u heard of them?

*shriek*

who cares if a sanctioned historic adversary interfered in the 2016 american election for quid pro quo with one of the candidates? tax cuts! there's goalposts to move :)

(i generally like her and her book about russia was very good, but her "sex panic" piece last november was more than a bit misguided, as later events proved)

A slightly edited version of her (?) recent talk at NYPL - http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/02/08/to-be-or-not-to-be/

this is no big deal, right? potato potahto, marijuana mar-a-lago?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/01/europe/putin-nuclear-missile-video-florida/index.html

How/why does that relate to the Russia investigation?

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/devin-nunes-just-sent-jeff-sessions-letter-accusing-fbi-breaking-law/

what a shitbeak

god he’s the worst

"i'm, heh heh, ...DOUBLING DOWN"
"dude you got no chips"
"THEN I'M TRIPLING, NO I'M FOURPLE-ING DOWN, THEN!"

what does Ryan even have to lose by defrocking him now.

wait so moo vaughn is gabbneb?

How/why does that relate to the Russia investigation?

russia (!!!) releasing a video showing off fancy new nukes (!!!) raining down on -- of all 50 states -- florida (mar-a-lago!!!) seems rather pointed, but who knows, could be totally unrelated / coincidental, or maybe like a joke in poor taste about the stoneman douglas high school shooting. meanwhile comrade kompromat says boo

another ethics complaint filed against Nunes

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/12/christopher-steele-the-man-behind-the-trump-dossier

wow that steele piece. at least there’s a lol bit

"His free time is devoted largely to his family, which includes three cats, one of whom not long ago replicated the most infamous allegation in the Steele dossier by peeing on a family member’s bed."

jane mayer is a hero

indeed

moo vaughn is gabbneb?

Moo's political positions are somewhat reminiscent of gabbneb, but their writing styles differ markedly. I say no; Moo is Moo.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05/im-sorry-for-creating-the-gerasimov-doctrine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/07/what-we-believe-mueller-is-investigating/

The scale, the scope ...

that "gerasimov doctrine" piece is great, thanks Simon

"His free time is devoted largely to his family, which includes three cats, one of whom not long ago replicated the most infamous allegation in the Steele dossier by peeing on a family member’s bed."

― maura, Monday, March 5, 2018 3:32 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this stood out to me too, great article otherwise

https://medium.com/@ScottMStedman/deripaskas-private-jet-newark-moscow-molde-for-secret-yacht-meeting-280494a6cb48

Holy shit at the way that is all coming into focus. I wonder if Mueller, privy to all this shit and more, ever sits back and smiles as civilians slowly piece together what he's known for months.

Alternative: I wonder how often Mueller is surprised by these scoops then suddenly swoops into action to catch up.

moo vaughn is gabbneb?

Moo's political positions are somewhat reminiscent of gabbneb, but their writing styles differ markedly. I say no; Moo is Moo.

― A is for (Aimless), Monday, March 5, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzNsOGt3bHk

xpost — he is surprised by none of it.