There aren't anyone up for election in Kentucky, and Indiana already has a Democrat incumbent. Really, if progressive candidates can win every where, why not show it in Wyoming or Mississippi? Everyone would be absolutely ecstatic.
― Frederik B, Monday, 26 February 2018 17:31 (six years ago) link
rmdemeyes
― Planck Blather (darraghmac), Saturday, February 24, 2018 11:34 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is v good
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 February 2018 18:56 (six years ago) link
fred this this isn't about ELECTORAL STRATEGY, this is about somebody (one of many, many people) whose parents have gone deranged. i don't know about you but i love my parents, they raised me, and you know seeing your parents voter for pederasts because "abortion" is fairly painful. worse still is that if "abortion" was ever, as an issue, separable from white identity politics, it isn't now; the two statements basically need to be interpreted as synonymous.
insofar as an argument for progressivism can be made here, my argument would be that in age of identity politics (on both sides), little things like "policy" no longer matter, or at least no longer matter as much as personal charisma, because the persuadable electorate are not knowledgable and do not make their decisions on such a basis. in 2016 part of clinton's appeal to voters like me was that her command of logistics in "GOTV" efforts more than counterbalanced her stunning lack of personal likability. i think it's time to test an alternate hypothesis, and given the rapidly degenerating nature of the american state i think it is urgent to test that hypothesis as quickly and widely as possible.
i suspect, at this point, that the people who are arguing against progressive candidates, or who are arguing for the "strategic" deployment of them as if they were some sort of limited resource, are doing so because they do not actually support progressive politics (though in your case, i don't believe this - i think you're just a cloudcuckoolander who believes that elections can be won or lost on a purely theoretical basis).
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 13:23 (six years ago) link
I must admit, I don't get what you're writing at all. I argue for running progressive candidates in Wyoming and Mississippi, don't you agree?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 15:19 (six years ago) link
But why would progressive candidates be more likely to have personal charisma?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 17:20 (six years ago) link
I mean isn't this just an argument to forget about ideology and just support candidates you think have that "spark"?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 17:22 (six years ago) link
All I care about is depriving republicans (or any party to their right, if that is even imaginable) of their wins. I will support whatever candidate, centrist, communist, whatever, that I think can defeat them and push back fascism
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 02:43 (six years ago) link
i suspect, at this point, that the people who are arguing against progressive candidates, or who are arguing for the "strategic" deployment of them as if they were some sort of limited resource, are doing so because they do not actually support progressive politics
That's not the case for me. I'd love to push the US as far left as it can go before it breaks. But I also understand that there's a deep deep DEEP tribalism at play and sometimes the best you can do is get a pro choice senator in Alabama.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 03:01 (six years ago) link
― Guayaquil (eephus!)
yes! if the primary is between a deeply charismatic and likeable centrist and a deeply unlikeable "progressive", and the general is going to be even remotely competitive, the centrist is the best choice. alternately, the argument is that no matter how politically knowledgable or skilled you are, if people don't like you, don't fuckin' run. find somebody people like and convince them to run instead. puppet them if you have to.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 14:39 (six years ago) link
how often do deeply unlikeable progressives get anywhere in politics
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 14:42 (six years ago) link
They're likable enough.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
generally speaking, they're the ones who HAVE to be exceptionally charismatic or likeable (or at least have a certain folksy je ne sais quoi) to get anywhere in the first place
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
"unlikable" and "get anywhere" both in the eye of the beholder but i can think of progressives who to my mind fulfill both conditions one of whom is in charge of a major uk party even
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 14:53 (six years ago) link
Idk how you can watch the video of Corbyn putting the (horrible) UK media on notice and not like him but as you say, eye of the beholder
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:15 (six years ago) link
I find HRC likeable as a personality tbh.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:18 (six years ago) link
Likeable or not, not a progressive. (Not gonna let myself get pulled into relitigating that one.)
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link
It was a response to this, not a suggestion of a likeable progressive:
in 2016 part of clinton's appeal to voters like me was that her command of logistics in "GOTV" efforts more than counterbalanced her stunning lack of personal likability.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
If anything, I might be less convinced of her command of GOTV logistics.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:25 (six years ago) link
yeah i am convinced of the opposite that in fact her logistical abilities were highly overrated and ultimately as an organizational manager she was a total failure
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:27 (six years ago) link
what about new states of being, ecstatic self whatevers
how'd she do there
― j., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:29 (six years ago) link
Andrew WK 2020
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:29 (six years ago) link
It was a response to this, not a suggestion of a likeable progressive
ahh kk
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:30 (six years ago) link
neoliberalism.jpg pic.twitter.com/AtC0L2uPm6— maple cocaine (@historyinflicks) February 28, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:56 (six years ago) link
very important to tweet out fundraising flyers from 2013
― piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:58 (six years ago) link
oh shit, i bet this year's Schiff event is outta my price range
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 16:00 (six years ago) link
no signs of a beyonce tour tho
― piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 16:02 (six years ago) link
Schiff is drawing the ire of the worst left twitter accounts right now because he’s visibly going after the fascist President. Very normal.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:07 (six years ago) link
Every time I see Schiff on TV he impresses me with his clarity and ability to speak in sentences. He hasn't struck me as a warmonger – he strikes me as a guy who might've been an obscure congressman had not this moment come.
I don't know his other positions.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:09 (six years ago) link
Every time I see Schiff on TV he impresses me with his clarity and ability to speak in sentences.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:09 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I've always been struck by the same. I don't think it makes for political salability, but it does or should make for spectrum-wide credibility and is a sign of a good prosecutor.
― Moo Vaughn, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:15 (six years ago) link
Schiff is drawing the ire of the worst left twitter accounts right now because he’s visibly going after the fascist President. Very normal.lmao have you ever met tankie twitter cause they're definitely worse
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:17 (six years ago) link
when Fidel died I got a taste of tankie Twitter
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:18 (six years ago) link
anyway i'll take hyperskepticism over the Mueller swooning any day
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:22 (six years ago) link
False binary.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:24 (six years ago) link
XXpost yeah, that’s definitely true. I use to follow an account that collected bad talkie tweets.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:25 (six years ago) link
Most leftists are aware that Mueller was Bush II's FBI guy.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:25 (six years ago) link
*tankie tweets
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:26 (six years ago) link
I'm not sure i want to know what a tankie is.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:34 (six years ago) link
mueller talk is consistently the most mortifying on ilx
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:35 (six years ago) link
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:34 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
keep it that way you are lucky
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:14 (six years ago) link
people that said RIP COMRADE! when fidel fucking castro died
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:15 (six years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/heRrqp0O6i— Tankie Takes (@tankietakes) February 13, 2018
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:27 (six years ago) link
jesus christ
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:30 (six years ago) link
well, I know some trots said that too...yknow what I'm just gonna see myself out now
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
wow thanks for the heads up on that tankie twitter feed some real gems in there
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:57 (six years ago) link
the dprk tankies are the weirdest i had no idea they even had a fanbase
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:59 (six years ago) link
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:25 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
While an important chapter, that's an inadequate description of a broader career that omits his showdown with Bush
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/582358540/muellers-reputation-in-washington-is-stunningly-bipartisan-journalist-says http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/msnbcs-ari-melber-looks-back-on-robert-mueller-s-fight-with-the-bush-administration-1038001219660
― Moo Vaughn, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:05 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Wednesday, February 28, 2018 6:15 PM (forty-nine minutes ago)
iirc one of the ppl who did this was that moron jill stein
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:10 (six years ago) link
i thought about jill stein for the unlikeable progressive conversation but i'm not sure she qualifies as having gotten anywhere
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:14 (six years ago) link
yes JD i remember that
― Simon H., Wednesday, February 28, 2018 1:41 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea i know it was fucking disgusting
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:19 (six years ago) link
Also Justin Trudeau tbf
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:25 (six years ago) link