copying and pasting from school shooting thread:
Thought experiment: If Trump came out full-throatedly in support of an assault weapons ban, how quickly would his base abandon him?
― oklahomie don't play that (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:07 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can y'all please, at least, say "semi-automatic" instead of "assault"? it's not merely a semantic difference - "assault" is meaningless, "semi-automatic" is not.
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:26 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i really hate giving any ground to the "if you don't know the difference between gun x and gun y then you can't tell me what I should do with my guns" crowd tbh. I don't give a fuck about the different kinds of guns, and assault sounds scary as hell. I'm fine to demonize them by whatever means will stick.
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:32 AM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
xp - so, the term assaults your sensibility?
it is not so much meaningless as it is an emotional distinction that could not be transferred into legal language. a person who plans to assault a large group of people will not only select a semi-automatic weapon, but also one with a large capacity magazine, an appropriately large caliber, muzzle velocity, etc. A semi-automatic pistol with a limited magazine is just as semi-automatic as any other weapon, but would hardly be the first choice of a mass shooter.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:34 AM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And yet, a semi-automatic pistol with a limited magazine is what most would be heroes, be they police or armed teachers, would carry.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:36 AM (fifty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's almost as if calling guns like the AR an assault weapon highlights the difference between it and other semi-automatics. It exists only to kill in large numbers, quickly.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:37 AM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
xp true, but I'm cool with just banning "smaller" semi-autos as well, so I think we're better off sticking with "ban all semi-automatic weapons"
also, you're kind of wrong - the VA Tech shooting had very high casualties and was done w/handguns.
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:38 AM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
(see the clip of Rubio accidentally getting a ton of applause for suggesting that very thing)
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:38 AM (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can y'all please, at least, say "semi-automatic" instead of "assault"? it's not merely a semantic difference - "assault" is meaningless, "semi-automatic" is not.
no
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:38 AM (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's an important legal distinction, but plz continue to be willfully ignorant so you can make rhetorical points
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:40 AM (fifty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm on the "semi-automatic" side -- for one thing, banning semi-automatics would apply to a lot more guns than "assault rifles" does. Also it accurately describes the function (shooting lots of bullets fast) rather than getting into semantics.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:40 AM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
thank you
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:41 AM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
rhetorical points can be extremely powerful
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:41 AM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
assault weapons make people think of those scary-looking weapons, when tbh yeah the Virginia Tech thing showed those weapons are not the only ones that should be targeted (sorry.)
― omar little, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:41 AM (forty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't personally give a shit about this; that said, "assault weapons ban" is the popular term for a piece of U.S. legislation in place 1994-2004.
I've seen "assault-style weapon" a bunch lately. Which is adequate, if not perfect, because choosing the AR for your school-massacre needs is partly a style choice.
If looking badass is part of the appeal, maybe we should require them to be pink and sparkly and covered with faux-fur accents.
― oklahomie don't play that (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:44 AM (forty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tend to fall on the "semi-auto" side, too, for the reasons tipsy outlined --- it actually encompasses more guns, and provides an easier delimiter. iirc wasn't leaning on cosmetic differences (eg pistol grips) how a lot of these loopholes were created in the first place? "ban all semi-automatic guns" is a stronger, bolder political statement than "age limits on assault rifles" imo
― gbx, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:45 AM (forty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
^^^ yes
my issue here is that "assault weapon" (or even "assault-style") is a meaningless term that cannot be translated into legalese, and clear legal language will be needed going forward
and like omar says, really what we want here is a total semi-automatic ban (which is even more comprehensive)
I'd think all of you would be on board with this, honestly
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:49 AM (forty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"assault weapon" is a wonderfully succinct, evocative phrase that appeals to emotion and will connect with non-gun-owners (aka about 57 percent of the population). if you want to make that synonymous with "semi-automatic weapons" I don't see a problem. acts and laws get imprecise/"umbrella" names all the time, no?
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:51 AM (forty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the whole reason these cracks in the NRA facade are finally showing up is because of emotion. exploit it ruthlessly any way you can imo
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:53 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
a meaningless term that cannot be translated into legalese
the problem here is that legalese doesn't translate well into political action, which is the first hurdle to cross. putting the legalese ahead of the emotional appeal is, uh, jumping the gun (plz forget I said that).
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:53 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this defeatist fucking bullshit pisses me off:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/gun-bill-analysis/index.html
The headline is throwing in the towel just as the new anti-gun movement begins. Cillizza is an idiot.
― omar little, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:55 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm on the "semi-automatic" side -- for one thing, banning semi-automatics would apply to a lot more guns than "assault rifles" does. Also it accurately describes the function (shooting lots of bullets fast) rather than getting into semantics.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:40 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
thank you
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
rhetorical points can be extremely powerful
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
assault weapons make people think of those scary-looking weapons, when tbh yeah the Virginia Tech thing showed those weapons are not the only ones that should be targeted (sorry.)
― omar little, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM
All these points are correct, which reminds me that every shooting is different. The NRA is good at explaining the limits of action based on the most recent episode of violence. That's why I'm cool with repealing the Second Amendment.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:59 AM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Cillizza is an idiot.
evergreen sentiment
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:01 AM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Heard a new descriptor on NPR the other day -- "multi-casualty firearms."
― WilliamC, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:03 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so.....firearms
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:04 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
me, a goddamned genius expert: actually, "assault weapon" is a fake term invented by liberal media
you, a poster who can Google: pic.twitter.com/0sIjBCFcTB
— Patrick Blanchfield (@PatBlanchfield) February 27, 2018
me, doubling down on being a fucking epic galaxy brain: I meant "assault rifle," it's an invention of the gun grabbers
you: pic.twitter.com/IoWzDZ15Gl
— Patrick Blanchfield (@PatBlanchfield) February 27, 2018
― Millennial Whoop, wanna fight about it? (Phil D.), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:05 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
putting the legalese ahead of the emotional appeal is, uh, jumping the gun (plz forget I said that).
this is more or less what I'm trying to get at. go with the terms that resonate with people, adapt as required later
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:06 AM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Obamacare isn't technically called that but people are plenty energized for and against
― oklahomie don't play that (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:20 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I regret this derail, should have taken it to the Gun Control thread, going there now
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 11:30 AM
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link