US Politics, February 2018: Our country was founded by geniuses, but it’s being run by idiots

But when Trump convinces half the country that Mexicans have gills, I look forward to your detailed scientifically-accurate explanation of why that is impossible, because mexicans are mammals, and have lungs.

excellent analogy

No, the only argument is that it is obviously fucking insane to even entertain the idea of teachers having guns--only a crazy person (one must hold) would even have this idea cross their mind, and only an evil person would voice it. That is the kind of drum beat that works, not "oh teachers are terrible shots" or "oh teachers don't get paid enough to add gun-toting to their responsibilities" or similarly letting-them-define-the-terms dumbshittedness

― Dan I., Thursday, February 22, 2018 8:13 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dan is right that rejecting and reframing is among the fastest ways to move public opinion through Talking Head discourse. Some pretentious people call it "prefigurative intervention."

Proposing "build a wall" as an answer to immigration reform is precisely this maneuver: reject typical reforms & offer a visionary alternative so that the debate naturally becomes about feasibility & details rather than the . "Medicare for All" is the same. "Give the teachers guns" to solve for gun control is the same.

I know how to do this. I don't really know how best to combat it.

For most issues, I'd say propose an equally visionary alternative that can successfully intervene. Don't know if that's possible with guns in America, though.

A straight up repeal of the Second Amendment sounds plenty visionary to me. It's enduring legacy should be the racist militias who's rampages ended Reconstruction anyway.

Visionary, yes. Palatable?

Probably as palatable as M4A, in all honesty.

I doubt a second amendment repeal would poll at 60%+ popular support.

We should accustom the American palate to amendment repeal. Let's start with the dusty old Third Amendment.

(I would LOVE to be wrong about this.) xp

I saw the best .M4A files of my generation destroyed by madness,
Starving hysterical naked

Amendement repeal sounds really good.

Take 'em all down.

I doubt M4A will poll at 60% popular support once the discussion begins in earnest. For instance, it should obviously include federally paid abortion for everyone.

the language of the 2nd amendment seems quite clear to me and it doesn't seem like to much of a stretch to call the modern SC interpretation a radically "non-originalist" bastardisation

this fuckin fascinates me

top line here being "control gun ownership"

https://i.imgur.com/se09GCz.png

http://www.people-press.org/2017/06/22/public-views-about-guns/#all

The Future Competent Trump and his Congress will set about repealing the entire Bill of Rights

probably easier as the waters rise

HOOS, am I reading that right: they're basically at 50/50 now?

thanks Obama

yep

everything will be 50/50.

even policies that are massively popular will ultimately end up being 50/50. bc this is how Things Are Now.

i'd be happy w 50/50 on the death penalty tbh

Meanwhile...

BREAKING: A grand jury in Virginia has returned a new indictment against Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, per new filing from the special counsel's office. Status report: https://t.co/Ho2JqXZ5co Indictment: https://t.co/lMEk8dQHvc pic.twitter.com/Y5aa8QP0x5

— Zoe Tillman (@ZoeTillman) February 22, 2018

WaPo on same

New charges were filed Thursday against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business partner, ratcheting up the legal pressure on them as they prepare for a trial later this year.

A new indictment has long been expected in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s prosecution of Manafort and his right-hand man, Rick Gates, on fraud and money laundering charges. Manafort served as President Trump’s campaign chairman from June to August 2016. Gates also served as a top official on Trump’s campaign. The new indictment contains 32 counts, including tax charges.

The filing Thursday comes at a time of significant uncertainty in the case about when a trial might happen, or even who the defense lawyers will be. Last week, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson criticized both sides for what she called “unacceptable delays” in a case which still doesn’t have a trial date set.

what she called “unacceptable delays”

The judge may be impatient, but I bet both sides are fine with delaying a trial atm.

i don't have a good idea of how long trials like this should take. is it possible that the defense wants to delay until after the election, while the prosecution (or at least forces who support them) would rather wrap it up just before the election? or will the whole thing be over by summer?

New Manafort indictment includes some emails he sent laying out his bank fraud plan. https://t.co/QPd4vqIxgX pic.twitter.com/rrrucluZe7

— Will Sommer (@willsommer) February 22, 2018

$30 million. Not exactly chump change.

Karl, I don't think that the timing of the trial vis a vis the election is an important consideration to either Mueller's team or to Manafort's.

Related. Gates sure has issues keeping lawyers.

.@woodruffbets EXCLUSIVE: Rick Gates fires his lawyer as Mueller hands down new charges against the one-time associate of Trump and Paul Manafort. https://t.co/oWbcyzvTGu

— Noah Shachtman (@NoahShachtman) February 22, 2018

I just saw MO Gov. Eric Greitens being led away in the custody of the St. Louis Sheriff.

— Robert Patrick (@rxpatrick) February 22, 2018

Wow

I know how to do this. I don't really know how best to combat it.

it = sophistry, my friend, there is but one way

https://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/1258.jpg?v=1485680437

Indicted on felony charge of invasion of privacy. https://t.co/z705EGrZdr

— Robert Patrick (@rxpatrick) February 22, 2018

Reached by phone minutes ago about @EricGreitens being in custody, STL Sheriff Vernon Betts said he couldn't talk because he's "kind of busy," and that "yeah, I'm with him now."

— Joel Currier (@joelcurrier) February 22, 2018

BREAKING: Mo. Gov. @EricGreitens indicted by @stlcao on felony invasion of privacy charge. @KMOXNews pic.twitter.com/OnaYxHZXeI

— Michael Calhoun (@michaelcalhoun) February 22, 2018

Is he the guy who took pictures of and possibly threatened his mistress?

Anyway, I guess good place for this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-18-governorships-democrats-could-pick-up-this-year/

Also, re: Gates, new charges and (another) new lawyer implies he's not cooperating (yet), right?

IMO, the point of gunning hard for repeal of 2nd amendment isn't because it's a thing that's likely to happen but rather, as noted above, to refuse the NRA and the GOP their desire to control the conversation and offer up eg a bump stock ban as if that's an acceptable concession. The quicker the left learns to be intransigent toward the maniacs on the right, the better.

the left could use some schooling in IDGAF necessary to move its own Overton window

it's almost like trump is president no matter what you type into this forum! odd

― sleepingbag, Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:50 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hungry4102

If part if the GOP game is marginalization by accusations of "Socialist!" it might behoove the Dems to push some already marginal pols into actualizing their fantasy. The right has made a cottage industry out of this.

Re gun control tactics

I am normally interested in compromise. Not this time. I cannot imagine a bill that would make a difference that the NRA supports. We don’t need to cut a deal with them, we need to beat them.

— Brian Schatz (@brianschatz) February 22, 2018

^this is the right opportunity—set up a press conference for Raul Grijalva or someone to start BAN ALL GUNS noise

jk/not really

still leaves him wiggle room, and allows dems to say that NRA opposes passing any "common sense" gun regulations

Thinking about this some more.

Again, the detail in the new Manafort is stunning, including Manafort's private communications with his family, tax advisers, etc. Mueller sending strong signal: He knows all.

— Garrett M. Graff (@vermontgmg) February 22, 2018

The question swiftly becomes, why resist? (Pardons do no good, state charges would happen almost immediately thereafter.)

also these indictments cover the period manafort was working on the campaign, which means he has the receipts from the campaign

these new indictments, that is