US Politics, February 2018: Our country was founded by geniuses, but it’s being run by idiots

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A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:40 (six years ago) link

lmao Homer Simpson is the biggest idiot in television history, nice one Ted

frogbs, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:40 (six years ago) link

which absolutely should consist of repeatedly finding convincing ways to hammer home the idea that these "ideas" are fucking crazy and evil and not worth seriously entertaining! christ

and you do this how? just keep saying how crazy they are? fuck it man thanks for your viewpoint, have a good one

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:41 (six years ago) link

they're the party of mr burns tbh

piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:42 (six years ago) link

No man, you attack the motives and character of the people who voiced the crazy ideas. you don't engage with the ideas themselves. have you never met someone with a personality disorder before?

Dan I., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:44 (six years ago) link

yep that really worked, and that's why Trump wasn't elected Prez. We all realized it was ridiculous to even take him serious as a candidate, we didn't engate with his ideas, we just attacked his motives and character and poof he disappeared.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:46 (six years ago) link

like, "never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it" is absolutely fucking true

Dan I., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:46 (six years ago) link

Yep that was Hilary's strategy

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:48 (six years ago) link

I assure you, pointing out that the wall became "ten feet higher" so many times that it would have to be a thousand feet tall by now, and a thousand foot wall would be impossible to build also did very little to prevent trump from becoming president, if that is really your one and only go-to move here.

Dan I., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:48 (six years ago) link

it's almost like trump is president no matter what you type into this forum! odd

sleepingbag, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50 (six years ago) link

Blaming people arguing against shitty ideas for the shitty ideas being taken seriously is bullshit. Trump and ALL HIS ideas are mocked, ridiculed. It hasn't stopped them from being taken seriously by a good portion of this country, cause there's a lot of dumb people not because smart people gave them too much credence.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:50 (six years ago) link

Like, you don't think there were idiots who engaged with republican psycho bullshit at face value during the campaign too? I don't blame you, because they were so ineffectual they might as well have been invisible.

Dan I., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:51 (six years ago) link

thanks for your viewpoint

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:53 (six years ago) link

But when Trump convinces half the country that Mexicans have gills, I look forward to your detailed scientifically-accurate explanation of why that is impossible, because mexicans are mammals, and have lungs.

Dan I., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:54 (six years ago) link

excellent analogy

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:55 (six years ago) link

No, the only argument is that it is obviously fucking insane to even entertain the idea of teachers having guns--only a crazy person (one must hold) would even have this idea cross their mind, and only an evil person would voice it. That is the kind of drum beat that works, not "oh teachers are terrible shots" or "oh teachers don't get paid enough to add gun-toting to their responsibilities" or similarly letting-them-define-the-terms dumbshittedness

― Dan I., Thursday, February 22, 2018 8:13 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dan is right that rejecting and reframing is among the fastest ways to move public opinion through Talking Head discourse. Some pretentious people call it "prefigurative intervention."

Proposing "build a wall" as an answer to immigration reform is precisely this maneuver: reject typical reforms & offer a visionary alternative so that the debate naturally becomes about feasibility & details rather than the . "Medicare for All" is the same. "Give the teachers guns" to solve for gun control is the same.

I know how to do this. I don't really know how best to combat it.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:01 (six years ago) link

For most issues, I'd say propose an equally visionary alternative that can successfully intervene. Don't know if that's possible with guns in America, though.

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:05 (six years ago) link

A straight up repeal of the Second Amendment sounds plenty visionary to me. It's enduring legacy should be the racist militias who's rampages ended Reconstruction anyway.

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:09 (six years ago) link

Visionary, yes. Palatable?

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:10 (six years ago) link

Probably as palatable as M4A, in all honesty.

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:11 (six years ago) link

I doubt a second amendment repeal would poll at 60%+ popular support.

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:12 (six years ago) link

We should accustom the American palate to amendment repeal. Let's start with the dusty old Third Amendment.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link

(I would LOVE to be wrong about this.) xp

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link

I saw the best .M4A files of my generation destroyed by madness,
Starving hysterical naked

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:14 (six years ago) link

Amendement repeal sounds really good.

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:14 (six years ago) link

Take 'em all down.

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:14 (six years ago) link

I doubt M4A will poll at 60% popular support once the discussion begins in earnest. For instance, it should obviously include federally paid abortion for everyone.

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:15 (six years ago) link

the language of the 2nd amendment seems quite clear to me and it doesn't seem like to much of a stretch to call the modern SC interpretation a radically "non-originalist" bastardisation

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:16 (six years ago) link

this fuckin fascinates me

top line here being "control gun ownership"

https://i.imgur.com/se09GCz.png

http://www.people-press.org/2017/06/22/public-views-about-guns/#all

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:20 (six years ago) link

The Future Competent Trump and his Congress will set about repealing the entire Bill of Rights

probably easier as the waters rise

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:22 (six years ago) link

HOOS, am I reading that right: they're basically at 50/50 now?

rob, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:24 (six years ago) link

thanks Obama

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:24 (six years ago) link

yep

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:35 (six years ago) link

everything will be 50/50.

even policies that are massively popular will ultimately end up being 50/50. bc this is how Things Are Now.

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:37 (six years ago) link

i'd be happy w 50/50 on the death penalty tbh

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:40 (six years ago) link

Meanwhile...

BREAKING: A grand jury in Virginia has returned a new indictment against Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, per new filing from the special counsel's office. Status report: https://t.co/Ho2JqXZ5co Indictment: https://t.co/lMEk8dQHvc pic.twitter.com/Y5aa8QP0x5

— Zoe Tillman (@ZoeTillman) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:41 (six years ago) link

WaPo on same

New charges were filed Thursday against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business partner, ratcheting up the legal pressure on them as they prepare for a trial later this year.

A new indictment has long been expected in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s prosecution of Manafort and his right-hand man, Rick Gates, on fraud and money laundering charges. Manafort served as President Trump’s campaign chairman from June to August 2016. Gates also served as a top official on Trump’s campaign. The new indictment contains 32 counts, including tax charges.

The filing Thursday comes at a time of significant uncertainty in the case about when a trial might happen, or even who the defense lawyers will be. Last week, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson criticized both sides for what she called “unacceptable delays” in a case which still doesn’t have a trial date set.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:42 (six years ago) link

what she called “unacceptable delays”

The judge may be impatient, but I bet both sides are fine with delaying a trial atm.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:48 (six years ago) link

i don't have a good idea of how long trials like this should take. is it possible that the defense wants to delay until after the election, while the prosecution (or at least forces who support them) would rather wrap it up just before the election? or will the whole thing be over by summer?

i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:52 (six years ago) link

New Manafort indictment includes some emails he sent laying out his bank fraud plan. https://t.co/QPd4vqIxgX pic.twitter.com/rrrucluZe7

— Will Sommer (@willsommer) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:56 (six years ago) link

$30 million. Not exactly chump change.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:57 (six years ago) link

Karl, I don't think that the timing of the trial vis a vis the election is an important consideration to either Mueller's team or to Manafort's.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:02 (six years ago) link

Related. Gates sure has issues keeping lawyers.

.@woodruffbets EXCLUSIVE: Rick Gates fires his lawyer as Mueller hands down new charges against the one-time associate of Trump and Paul Manafort. https://t.co/oWbcyzvTGu

— Noah Shachtman (@NoahShachtman) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:07 (six years ago) link

I just saw MO Gov. Eric Greitens being led away in the custody of the St. Louis Sheriff.

— Robert Patrick (@rxpatrick) February 22, 2018

mookieproof, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:08 (six years ago) link

Wow

Moo Vaughn, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:09 (six years ago) link

I know how to do this. I don't really know how best to combat it.

it = sophistry, my friend, there is but one way

https://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/1258.jpg?v=1485680437

j., Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link

Indicted on felony charge of invasion of privacy. https://t.co/z705EGrZdr

— Robert Patrick (@rxpatrick) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link

Reached by phone minutes ago about @EricGreitens being in custody, STL Sheriff Vernon Betts said he couldn't talk because he's "kind of busy," and that "yeah, I'm with him now."

— Joel Currier (@joelcurrier) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:17 (six years ago) link

BREAKING: Mo. Gov. @EricGreitens indicted by @stlcao on felony invasion of privacy charge. @KMOXNews pic.twitter.com/OnaYxHZXeI

— Michael Calhoun (@michaelcalhoun) February 22, 2018

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:18 (six years ago) link

Is he the guy who took pictures of and possibly threatened his mistress?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:25 (six years ago) link


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