Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

https://twitter.com/i/moments/942612074584256512

^ throws a lot of punches and some of them connect, but they don't form a counter-critique so much as escalate the twitter brawl. this only comes to a good end if it gets people to read the book before they argue about it.

i'm gonna say there is literally no hope for that

I don’t know @tanehisicoates well. We had a long dinner once & I interviewed him on @intercepted. But I do believe this line of attack is off base. I was struck by his humility and a clear sense that his views evolve as he gets more information, which should be true of all of us.

— jeremy scahill (@jeremyscahill) December 18, 2017

I also believe that Cornel West has been unjustly smeared for years. West spoke out early and often about Obama’s wars, drone strikes, neoliberal economics. Still, I question why he would blast @tanehisicoates, rather than engage him directly.

— jeremy scahill (@jeremyscahill) December 18, 2017

I think the problem here is that Cornel West is no longer really engaged in serious scholarship and so tosses off a 1000 word article which doesn't really engage, makes arguments that don't really stick etc. and then, as TNC is as about as sacrosanct as a public intellectual can be for liberals, this results in a load of controversy and invective. there absolutely could be a compelling critique of Coates made from the left, which Cornel West himself would be capable of writing if only he would actually bother doing the work.

his piece is just pure clickbait. the guardian published it knowing that. sometimes i want to just give up on the media

Pure clickbait? Not engaged in serious scholarship?

Well it’s a polemical piece after all. It’s supposed to provoke (reactions, thoughts, debates).

It’s an ungenerous and selective reading of TNC, I’d agree, but I can’t blame the old Prof for smelling a rat when presented with the spectacle of the unanimous, enraptured lionization of a fellow black intellectual by white liberal America. It may be that Coates ends up being unfairly charged by West, but in the process he may be shedding light on issues worth being alerted to.

Reading my post over, I realize it’s an ungenerous reading of your post , jim, and very not otm

Also I’m tired and stressed out tonight

Jelani Cobb’s argument that West was motivated by professuonal jealousy is petty and meanspirited. Coates’s wntire worldview — from his atheistic pessimism to his strong critique of the idea that black and white working poeple can find solidarity on class grounds — goes directly against everything West stands for. Of course he would object to the intellectual who criticizes the very forms of hope that for the basis of West’s politics. Of course he would be skeptical that this vision — which might not be “hopeless,” but is way more cautious of hope than what West believes, because he believes the world can be transformed — has proven so popular among white middle class people. What do you expect him to say?

These two thinkers don’t believe in the same things.

Bad grammar and typos but you get the idea.

Just because you believe in different things you don't have to write so shallow attacks as West did.

it looks like he just deleted his twitter account?

Yes, he pointed to West, a South African feminist writer and Richard Spencer all disagreeing with him and suggested he didn’t want to be part of the conversation via that medium any more.

it was a bit of a bad look tbh

not quitting twitter but basically saying: west, this feminist, and richard spencer agree with each other, see ya.

idk seems reasonable to me

if a white supremacist was enthusiastically seconding cornel west's critique of me i'd def quit the internet and possibly burn the bridge behind me

yeah weird that the white nat media-magnet stuck his nose into a disagreement between two prominent black leftists, wonder what's up with that

my issue is that being like "look richard spencer agrees with west, wow!" you're assuming that Richard Spencer is acting in good faith which he obviously fucking isn't, and you're trying to connect West with Spencer, which whatever you think of West is unfair

leaving twitter is pretty much always a good idea, too bad RS is gonna consider this a win

getting punched in the face, w/l?

sorry to chime in on that point only. but come on, the man profits hugely on our indiscipline.

as a rule i think it's best for wp to just kind of read and observe these kinds of disagreements instead of coming out swinging. i mostly feel like i haven't read enough. i don't think the concepts in question are small enough to really boil down to 1 guy vs 1 other guy, whoever you think ought to win.

i will say that @ztsamudzi has been a good follow for the past few days (and generally)

The argument these last few days has literally been that Coates was suspect because white liberals agreed with him, but Richard Spencer co-signs West and it's no big deal?

i tried, everybody

frederik profits hugely on your indiscipline

The argument these last few days has literally been that Coates was suspect because white liberals agreed with him, but Richard Spencer co-signs West and it's no big deal?

― Frederik B, Tuesday, December 19, 2017 11:22 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you rival richard spencer for disingenuousness

The problem isn't that Richard Spencer cosigned Cornel West. The problem is that Cornel West traded scholastic credibility for a cameo in a shitty Matrix movie and has spent a good chunk of the subsequent 20 years cosigning white people who feel they have the right to opine on whether particular black people are black enough.

there's another guy who lacked scholarly credibility

maybe you've heard of him

a stonemason from athens

spent a good chunk of the subsequent 20 years cosigning white people who feel they have the right to opine on whether particular black people are black enough.

― Embalming is a flirty business (DJP), Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:37 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What is this in reference to?

https://www.singlepayeraction.org/2011/09/19/ralph-nader-cornel-west-unveil-proposal-to-challenge-obama-in-primaries/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo

For the record, you can 100% criticize Obama's record without calling him an Uncle Tom or cosigning people who do; this is not about "Obama was right" as much as it "white people on the left are quick to decry racism right up until they get to use it themselves"

Did Nader ever apologize for that remark? If he did, I never heard about it.

of course he didn't, why would he?

He doubled down, if anything.

https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/nader-defends-obama-slur/

getting punched in the face, w/l?

sorry to chime in on that point only. but come on, the man profits hugely on our indiscipline.

not sure if i'm misreading, but my intended snarky point was "rs likely considered that a win too, what an ahole."

i cant imagine looking at this scenario and thinking coates leaving twitter is some kind of "bad look" ... the fuck?

^^^

seconding that

did anyone in here already link RL Stephens much more substantive left critique of TNC? it's a more serious thing, not a glib guardian blog post, that i'd hoped somebody with a bigger platform like west might mount:

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/05/17/the-birthmark-of-damnation-ta-nehisi-coates-and-the-black-body/

Yeah, that was linked upthread. Frederik didn't find that one very convincing, either.

tbh i didn't find that one convincing either

here he is on west for whatever that's worth for passerby

I think the Cornel West riff on Coates is rather shallow, sort of like an interview riff rather than a substantive take on Coates and his work. It's more about West projecting his intersectional line rather than taking up Coates on his own terms.

— R.L. Stephens (@RLisDead) December 19, 2017

(its a thread)

yeah this seems to repeat his point which i am probably extremely reductively compressing: tnc is too pessimistic

which imo...idk y'all, is the revolution gonna solve racism

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i already regret posting about this at all

i do think there's something to his point about reconstruction reparations being qualitatively distinct from TNC's suggestions in what they have the potential to make possible