WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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His interview on Letterman was as big a disaster as the tirade itself. Oh boy.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:09 (nineteen years ago)

i feel a little less charitable watching the letterman thing, which has at least a few moments of maybe-not-getting-it, but it's sort of understandable that he might be discursive in a moment like that

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xxl5QJFCqwY

LOL Do you think you can drug me and play with my toys? You've got ANOTHER THING COMING buddy

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:13 (nineteen years ago)

This incident was completely in keeping with Richards' "on the edge, out of control, and not at all funny" schtick that he's been doing since the early 80s -- think of the excrutiating toy soldiers bits on Fridays, or the Andy Kaufmann walk-out, where he was the only cast member in on the joke and could only come up with looking and acting enraged. Kramer was funny because there was a script.

(Richards' career will suffer more than any of the UC cops'.)

Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:23 (nineteen years ago)

(Strike that last bit -- it was an ill-considered attempt at edgy humor.)

Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:24 (nineteen years ago)

He did play Kramer as if he were on the receiving end of a constant tasing.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:26 (nineteen years ago)

im pretty sure zmuda said in an interview that only the director that andy almost fought with was the only one that knew about the kaufman thing and the cast had no idea.

chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:26 (nineteen years ago)

in both his and mel gibson's cases, the whole idea of a public apology is basically flawed. i mean, it's the least they can do, but at the same time there's not much they can say that really makes anything any better. the standard celeb-apology model is for behavior that fucks up their own lives, or at worst their family's lives -- drugs and sex, mostly. the model doesn't work so well when the behavior was outwardly directed at entire sections of the population. it's easy to forgive people for fucking up their own lives, but a lot to make amends to millions of people. people who aren't members of the immediately targeted groups don't have any moral grounds on which to grant forgiveness, and people who are members of them don't have any reason to think you're anything but another racist asshole. so an apology, even if it seems heartfelt, doesn't make much of a dent. and is just not credible; it is possible to go from being a drug addict to being at least temporarily sober in a relatively short period of time. but who's gonna believe you were a racist asshole last week but you're totally not now?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:27 (nineteen years ago)

but who's gonna believe you were a racist asshole last week but you're totally not now?

which is why i'm not shocked by this at all to begin with. slow news week, i guess. or more interesting to ilx than those kids who got killed in alabama today, or something.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

I thought Richards as well as Jack Burns knew what Kaufman was going to do on that Fridays skit. During Kaufman's "breakdown" Richards gets up and gets a pile of the cue cards and drops them in Kaufman's lap, which I thought was the high point of the bit. Brilliant improv if he didn't know beforehand.

nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:35 (nineteen years ago)

i just finally bothered watching the meltdown clip (but not the apology yet). what's even more fucked up than richards' outburst is that the audience took so long to stop laughing after the first utterances of the magic word.

the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

# WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown (666 new answers, last at 12:36 am)

the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

Of course it's that shitbag Letterman, of all people, who's generously giving Richards the forum on which to 'apologize.' What a fucking douchebag. Go crawl up Madonna's ass you piece of shit.

That said, after watching the footage, it's clear that Richards 'went too far.' I mean, shit, I wouldn't have said any of that, meltdown or no. But I still think he should stand behind what he said - even if he's all 'it was the coke' - instead of becoming a genuflecting little weasel about it.

I find political correctness teeth-gnashingly offensive. To whom do I address the poison postcard?

Big Juan Listening to Psych Folk Alone at 4:30am (Roger Fidelity), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 09:34 (nineteen years ago)

Slightly OT, but there's this whole thing in Florida about reclaiming the word "cracker" and making it something to brag about. For example:

Florida Cracker Country and the sites notable What's a Cracker/" page

and then there's the Florida Cracker Horse and Florida Cracker Cattle

and we cannot forget the Cracker Village or the Florida Cracker Trail.

Whoops - almost left out the Florida Cracker House Plans.

I also got a lemonade at this place, last time I was in St. Augustine:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p257/HedgePigLove/My%20Refrigerator/cracker.jpg

I kinda get the feeling that the word "Cracker" just isn't as emotionally charged as some others mentioned up-thread.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 09:44 (nineteen years ago)

http://chefmoz.org/img/ctoys/crackerbarrel2.jpg

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:16 (nineteen years ago)

i just finally bothered watching the meltdown clip (but not the apology yet). what's even more fucked up than richards' outburst is that the audience took so long to stop laughing after the first utterances of the magic word.
-- the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (theundergroundhom...), November 20th, 2006 10:36 PM. (later)


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# WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown (666 new answers, last at 12:36 am)
-- the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (theundergroundhom...), November 20th, 2006 10:39 PM. (later)

amazed that this thread went that many posts w/o anyone mentioning this.

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:17 (nineteen years ago)

I kinda get the feeling that the word "Cracker" just isn't as emotionally charged as some others mentioned up-thread.

I remember a Saturday Night Live skit from many years ago when Chris Rock was attempting to come up with a new slur for white people because he felt that the current ones, "honky" and probably "cracker" as well weren't nearly offensive enough.


Racial Slur Database

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:20 (nineteen years ago)

Let me try that again


Racial Slur Database

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:25 (nineteen years ago)

what did he finally decide on? "yakoo" or something?

GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

Something like that, yeah.

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

I'm very bummed about this. I mean, ffs, this is KRAMER. I fucking love Seinfeld but I don't think I'll ever be able to watch the show without thinking of this incident. :-(

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

i love pulling off the highway when i see a sign for "the nigger barrel", great pancakes and a good gift shop, too

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

nah, this hasn't tainted my love for Seinfeld whatsoever

Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:43 (nineteen years ago)

it's increased it?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

an equivalent of sorts to this in the UK from a few years ago: Big Ron does a Kilroy...

if it's possible to have 'less grounds' for such an outburst, Atkinson was not performing improv stand-up or under any emotional stress at the time. however altho fired from his job he has appeared on TV shows and been the subject of several interviews in the press since then and generally a sense of tolerance seems to have prevailed which suggests that rehabilitation IS conceivable (altho i know it can be v different in the US).

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

call me naive but I refuse to believe that kramer is a racist. especially after his appearance on letterman. just because you say something racist it doesn't automatically make you a racist, just like it doesn't automatically make you a misogynist if you call a girl a cunt or genuinly think a girl is a whore if you call her that. people lose their minds and say the most stupid shit all the time, it doesn't make you evil.

however, this was absolutely awful to watch(and the act itself of course) and there is obviously something wrong with this guy. he needs help.

Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

Let's talk a bit more about the audience's initial laughter on Letterman, and the inability of them to accept Richards' appearance as something real vs. a performance/entertainment until prompted by Seinfeld to shut up.

I was sort of reminded of Richards' old colleague, Andy Kaufman, the reaction he received many years ago when he did this bugged-out entreaty before an audience (I think it was following the Friday's incident?) "I've lost my job and...Why are you laughing? This isn't a joke..." The obvious difference, of course, being in Kaufman's case he was totally 'in character' as he always was, whereas Richards was truly, visibly disturbed...

What do you think the audience's laughter is a reflection of? Emotional distancing from the situation? A generalized jadedness our society feels towards entertainment stars (i.e. their perceived superficiality, etc.)? The desensitization of their behavior when channeled through the mass media lens ("this is just another act")?

Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

the apololgy http://youtube.com/watch?v=dufHYw-W6j4 sorry if already linked

pscott (elwisty), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

or they just weren't aware what *exactly* he had said?

Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

in the original clip audience laughter is presumably a kneejerk reaction to the shock of the sudden repeated use of the word and references, perhaps combined with a sense of excitement about taboos being 'challenged' in this way. could even be denial again in some cases (this sounds bad but i don't want to appear stuck-up by not laughing...) or beyond that the idea that nobody is sure what is/isn't funny anymore and with kaufman-inspired prank culture so rife today (whether it's Borat or Jackass or something else) some people are practically terrified of being caught out/the butt of the joke.

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

This thread is interesting as a dissection of "racist" as a word or concept. Some use it to describe people based on their actions, some based on a guess at some inner and unknowable state of mind. Action is character, or something, behavior is personality, or it's not. Or maybe we can never know what is in someone else's heart, no matter what they say or do. In which case we're back to making judgments based on their actions, which seems reasonable, and this was a horribly racist act, so people who do such things are racists. It's almost like the word gets in the way of the discussion. It reminds me a little of governments arguing over when to use the word genocide.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

army + acid commune can do a lot to a man:


"He was drafted during the Vietnam War and stationed in Germany as one of the co-directors of the V Corps Training Road Show. He produced and directed shows dealing with race relations and drug abuse; "This was a successful, educational operation, boosting the morale of our men and incorporating the arts into the service." He then spent two years in the Army developing educational skits and a couple more years "finding himself" at a commune in the Santa Clara Mountains; he drove a bus and developed a stand-up comedy act in 1979."

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

re: big ron

a sense of tolerance seems to have prevailed which suggests that rehabilitation IS conceivable

uh, big ron seems pretty unreconstructed about the whole thing, i think he genuinely believes hes a victim of 'political correctness'. he probably genuinely believes hes not a racist either

but the sense of tolerance that 'seems to have prevailed' is more the public deciding 'ah whatever, i like ron, you know' and 'forgetting' the racism thing, rather than ron rehabilitating himself

-- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

"forcefield of hostility"

"this crap"

what a car wreck. and watching letterman try to be serious is ridiculous. roger otm

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

all this in time for the new release of season 7 of dvd Seinfeld

Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

He kind of looks like my dad, which is disturbing me. Is he Jewish or Italian (or neither)? Sorry, I just can't help but having that classic paranoid knee-jerk "I hope he's not Jewish because he'll give us a bad name" reaction, which I realize is ridiculous.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

but the sense of tolerance that 'seems to have prevailed' is more the public deciding 'ah whatever, i like ron, you know' and 'forgetting' the racism thing, rather than ron rehabilitating himself

yeah this is what i meant, i wasn't talking about ron himself

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

these clips will be the easter eggs on season 8 dvd 8-)

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

In which case we're back to making judgments based on their actions, which seems reasonable, and this was a horribly racist act, so people who do such things are racists.

yeah. there's this obsession with figuring out if someone is "really" a racist. which in some cases is actually sort of provable -- george allen comes to mind, the way one person after another came out with stories about him -- but in a lot of cases is down to the unknowability of what's in someone's "heart." but all we can really judge by are actions. saying michael richards is not a racist, or mel gibson is not a racist, requires some moral jujitsu: he committed racism, but he's not a racist. which is kind of like saying, i committed murder, but i'm not a murderer.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

i smoked a cigarette once, but i'm not a smoker.

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

i kissed a guy once...

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

but you're not a kisser?

anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

did you have a wank steve?

-- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

but i never tell

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

maybe kramer is racist-curious

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

the audience's initial laughter on Letterman, and the inability of them to accept Richards' appearance as something real

maybe that should be expected when you do yr mea culpa on a talk show whose host has personified pop irony for 25 years, and (on air)displayed the social consciousness of a newt? (unless the recent Bill O'Reilly stuff counts)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

remember when lord custos said i had no right to call anything on ilx racist unless i could prove active membership in the klan

that sounds like a clever ironic joke but he was for real

anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

I'm happy he did try to apologize. It was extremely awkward to see him trying to wrestle out of this (and with himself). He's obviously shaken up about it all. No matter what he had said, I think most people will laugh it off and continue to think he is racist. Something I don't really believe, one rant doesn't make one a racist. Maybe I'm naive. I know when I was 18, I would have said he was a racist. And maybe, yes, he is, but fuck it I'm trying to forgive. It's easy to be negative and shit all over the guy. Sure a slur is a slur, but that doesn't make one a bad person in my opinion. I believe in the benefit of the doubt. Of course it is racist - no matter how you look at it - but I really don't want to believe he's a racist. Probably because I want to continue enjoying Seinfeld. ;-)

God, why do I bother, really?

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

interesting that ordinary people want to 'forgive' a rich and succesful guy who doesn't even know who they are?

-- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

he brought great joy and laughter to their lives for many years.

we're not talking about mel gibson right?

2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)


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