Post a controversial opinion

Think treezy may be alluding to oh never mind

I would like to join all other grumps and declare the concerts should be quick, early, played at a reasonable volume, and offer seating.

Guys, your local symphony/concert hall needs you and you clearly need it.

sund4r on all of the money

what if Ross Douthat were a trans black woman who quoted von Mises

look if you wanna talk to conservatives there's fucking millions of them just don't drag the rest of us along

You pay lip service to the lack of race and gender diversity and then spend the majority of words wishing for Ross Douthat to show up. How about go fuck yourself.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, December 9, 2017 9:19 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

will do tombot. thank you for this helpful response.

^ genteel

lol

I wish Ross Douhat would post on ilx because it would be fun to see him get relentlessly clowned and owned for being such a basic peabrain

He overrates Grimes.

ilx doesn't have a token moderate conservative because there's no real space to be a moderate conservative anymore. (also we don't have very many new users in general.) even david brooks and douthat types don't defend the trump administration / can't really present themselves as republicans anymore, and that's what they're paid to do. at this point if you don't agree w/ the statement 'I can't defend anything the republican party does at this point', you probably aren't going to fit in most ilx-type environments.

I used to post to an 'ideologically diverse' Canadian politics message board with a lot of conservatives (and even they mostly thought Republicans were insane - in the pre-Trump years). It was interesting and intellectually challenging for a while, even if it was sometimes just to have to read more and think to sharpen my own arguments, but, in the end, once I was familiar with their basic lines of argumentation and confident in why I reject them, I wasn't getting a lot out of it. (Or there might be certain issues on which we agreed, and again, I still wasn't getting much from the discussion.) There are published conservative/right-wing writers who are better at it than the vast majority of message board posters. (And that goes for the best of them. There were a bunch who fit Aimless's description.)

if you want to engage w/ ideological diversity posting on a message board is the wrong way to go (for the reasons aimless mentioned above). find some intelligent ideologically diverse individuals you enjoy talking to and engage them privately in person or over IM. if they continue to make arguments for their positions that you find challenging/innovative/worth discussing then continue to engage them. if they stop then find someone new. don't bother doing it in public the entire pubic discursive sphere is an anti-intellectual political positions wasteland designed entirely to self-satisfy pre-existing ideological biases and claim rhetorical online space as a surrogate for real life political accomplishments. no one really wants their positions challenged (unless they need them challenged by the orthodoxy to bring themselves more in line w/ their preferred hegemonic position). if you're one of the tiny minority who actually wants that you'll need to find it elsewhere.

what if Ross Douthat were a trans black woman who quoted von Mises

no one really wants their positions challenged (unless they need them challenged by the orthodoxy to bring themselves more in line w/ their preferred hegemonic position)

no shit 99% of the opinions on this thread are minor deviations. once in a while someone posits an actual controversial opinion (one that has social stakes) and generally they're pilloried.

you haven't noticed that most ppl would rather bring their opinions into line w/ the popular consensus then be isolated/ostracized and mocked/dismissed for dissenting? why would a libertarian ever post on ilx? you'd have a bunch of hyenas desperately contending to be the one to deliver the blow that either converts them or sends them packing. ilx is a little brighter than most online communities but it's not any more open-minded or tolerant of heresy. nb that there are individuals on ilx past and current that are v bright and well worth speaking to in private (and sometimes they generously expose themselves to shaming in order to share an idea that the hivemind might not be receptive to) but ilx is otherwise like every other in-group in history. a lot of ppl enjoy participated in groups that support their ideology/opinions - that's why v few groups actively court controversy (tho they get it anyway since even minor shibboleths arising in in-groups have the potential to spark clusterfucks).

Mordy otm.

why would a libertarian ever post on ilx?

Possibly because they overrate Grimes.

welcome to realiti

Mordy otm

we haven't reached the climax of Rand's Anthem yet, be patient...

You guys are misreading treezy and sound disingenuous

Mordy gets it but is basically rewording parts of what treezy said

I think these types of discussions can only be had in person, especially with someone who is already kind of a friend

The type of honest discussion treezy asks for requires a little higher stakes than some rando posting on a meaningless message board

fwiw i agree w/ treeshy that it would be exhilarating to participate in a [let's face it utopian] space which had maximum ideological + cultural diversity along w/ maximum fealty to good faith argumentation. one potential paradox is that some ideologies + cultures call for no dialogue w/ heretics so really what you need is figures who can represent their communities but also stand a part from them. and even ppl from cultures/ideologies that are against aspirations like "everyone should speak their mind," and "the highest accomplishment is elucidation" or whatever would have to agree to limit themselves to their strictures. it would be like a yeshiva but instead of arguing about talmud all day you'd argue about politics, philosophy, and what one song you'd remove from sgt pepper's lonely hearts club band to make it a better album.

xpost
i need a reminder of what happens at the climax of rand's anthem. i actually read it in high school, during a brief phase when the local libertarian freethinkers tried to recruit me for capitalism, but i don't remember much about it. something to do with heroic rich people ripping their golden swords through the bodies of the poor freeloaders and finally freeing the land for innovation?

See, I disagree with this (Mordy/treesh) line of reasoning. I am not sure there is such ideological sameness here, but I *do* think ILX is really good at piling on / speaking over diverse voices until they appear muted or give up an argument.

I think mordy is a hypocrite who lacks self awareness but I’m not sure if that’s consensus or a challenging opinion

If you suspected it was consensus you'd have kept it in your nappy

I think mordy is a hypocrite who lacks self awareness

I always knew that someday this thread would turn into personal attacks against other ilxors disguised as "controversial opinions". I'm surprised it took this long. Not surprised it was deej who broke the barrier.

FP'ed him btw.

Eh Jesus steady on

j/k

Cap'n' Save-a-Mordy

i do appreciate mordy's willingness to go against ILX orthodoxy and i think his diagnosis of ILX is mostly true, though it seems like most people are happy with it like this. there is certainly much less board drama than there used to be, though part of that could be that ILX has like fifty regular posters with an average age in the 40s these days

XP warrin d had to regul8

xxp You're holding the wrong end of the stick.

it seems like most people are happy with it like this. there is certainly much less board drama than there used to be, though part of that could be that ILX has like fifty regular posters with an average age in the 40s these days

― k3vin k., Saturday, December 9, 2017 2:11 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk if people are happy. shit is kind of stale, dude. we should do like cruise ships and have different special events. poker night, singles night, karaoke, etc.

Personal attacks happened before d-40 if u must kno

Cunts

lol. deej pile-ons are p good even if i think pile-ons, in principle, lead to conformism

temple of doom is the best indiana jones movie

some rando posting on a meaningless message board

he says, 2 years after giving up his data mining project (we hope) to stick around for the meaningless threads

I resent Mordy’s argument that we don’t welcome controversy but it is true that we also have a dedicated thread for summarizing “clusterfuck” discussions where folks get heated to combustion over stuff.

I also mildly resent the way a lot of posters have developed their “I’m CONTROVERSIAL” performative identities on these borads but a lot of us of are guilty of that

we can unban “The Sniper” and whatever sock “larry appleton” was last traveling under, but the FP/SB counts bear out what this community wants from its mods. Morbius, Mordy, Deej, Turrican et al are still here for lots of good reasons. This is not a place where we intentionally dismiss voices that don’t cling to an arbitrary canon. There is no king, nor star chamber.

We should probably work on how we phrase our disagreements but that is true everywhere, including “real life”

If you suspected it was consensus you'd have kept it in your nappy

― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Saturday, December 9, 2017 12:25 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol yeah you know me a real slave to ilx consensus

Mordy’s issues w the “consensus” are with a specific consensus not all consensus... for such a straight shooter he sure does have a substantial number of ppl backing him up in these “deej pile ons”

The opposite meaning to that

But look I clown u hard because you seem to be in that wheelhouse

I welcome deej on ilx long may he stay etc

Morbius, Mordy, Deej, Turrican et al are still here for lots of good reasons.

Now you are insulting Mordy. And Morbz. Abd Deej.

Haha well I did put him last

ContrOp: Pretty much every song from the Christmas music canon up through like 'All I Want for Christmas is You' is an evergreen. Even the ones that are objectively bad (e.g. Mannheim Steamroller, novelty songs, etc.).

(Non-ContrOp: No one should have to be involuntarily exposed to any of these songs.)

If we were in 30's Berlin we'd all be Nazi's.
― Sylvestre, Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:58 AM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is thee classic controp and I'm inclined to agree more than disagree. Not because I feel some seed of hate inside me, just basic knowledge of group psychology

Idk what "group" do you belong to? What flock do you fly with?

https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/