Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

thx

In other news I'm like 10 minutes into the 5hr documentary on the bonus disc and already this is the greatest

Jealous

5hr documentary on the bonus disc

ok buying this immediately was gonna wait for xmas

It's so good, don't wanna give anything away

But if you're jonesing for more dl being pissy and despotic a la LYNCH1, there is some of that here

(Probably "despotic" only in the way a director needs to be tbf)

yes, absolutely, yes yes yes

chainsmoking i assume

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-WW8V8nD5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxyTPpPrhE

New estimated delivery date:
Thursday, December 21, 2017

lol goddammit

Best Buy will get it to you sooner at the same price. I canceled my Amazon order and sent them a bitchy message through customer service.

Question: It seems to be commonly accepted that Leland was bad enough without Bob's help but I don't remember any Twin Peaks moment that actually suggested any of his evil actions were independent of Bob. What did I miss?

mostly in FWWM, the movie makes it pretty clear that Leland was responsible for his actions. I saw FWWM before season 2, and his epiphanic deathbed confession in the jail cell was really jarring and upsetting imo, exculpated him

the queasy ambiguity/fluctuation of Leland's participation/awareness level is one of the most effective things about the entire series

yep. and though it's considerably more complicated by fwwm, there's even internal series queasiness, e.g. how leland's constant grief dancing is actually related to bob

and also there's the small matter that even if you read him as completely "innocent" or helpless, nothing lessens the horror for laura

yeah the series and the movie do seem to differ greatly on that point. series makes it look like bob leaves him in the cell and knows that his sudden knowledge of what he has done will crush him. in the film it's clear that while he's possessed by bob he absolutely knows what's going on. the scene with the hand-washing before dinner seems to be very much leland the abusive father for instance. and the scene in laura's bed where she suddenly sees bob as leland and he says "i thought you knew". jesus! film just seems much more of a story of incestuous abuse than demonic possession

I wouldn't say it was clear that Bob had nothing to do with some of his FWWM bad behaviour. I was always wondering.

yeah jim otm that dinner scene is one of the most deeply horrifying moments in the entire Twin Peaks universe

one of the reasons it's one of the great works of art about abuse is precisely bc bob is an effective if also ambiguous and imperfect (which is why he fascinates) metaphor for an abuser's compartmentalization of his abuse

leland both knowing and not knowing what he's doing is basically how 100 percent of the abusers i've known in real life have processed their own actions

Simon and Brad otm, the ambiguity of how these weird forces that sometimes have physical form fuck with our world is really integral to the series

there are entire scenes or episodes where people saying they've seen Bob or are explaining things are like trauma victims trying to claim they were abducted by aliens because they don't want to face what's actually going on

The murder of Teresa Banks seems much more "Leland" than "Bob" too - it doesn't seem like Bob would be too worried about being blackmailed

i generally agree with this but i do feel like the s2 finale and all of s3 making it clear that bob is an actual evil force and not a metaphor or psychological projection edged maybe a little too close to exculpating leland

The Yellow Kid- any threat to Leland is a threat to Bob surely? Killing Teresa or anyone else would be something he'd enjoy.

NA- I wouldn't like it if he was purely a metaphor.

See I feel like they always made that clear - within the fictional world - but that the existence of a literal demon kinda exists alongside the psychological/metaphorical readings rather than negating them xp

I definitely don't think that the idea of leland's culpability starts with fwwm. The episode where he dies (which I like but is clumsy in a lot of ways) leans heavily toward suggesting he's unaware of the abuse/murder, but the lynch-directed episode where he kills maddy, imho, leans heavily in the other direction

i do feel like the s2 finale and all of s3 making it clear that bob is an actual evil force and not a metaphor or psychological projection edged maybe a little too close to exculpating leland

One thing that doesn't fully square for me is that Bob is this magnificent, concentrated evil, unleashed by an atomic bomb, and... he spends decades inside a small town lawyer who kills a couple women and molests his daughter. There's a mismatch between the magnitude of Bob's evil and the relatively pedestrian crimes he commits.

Twin Peaks is a kind of spiritual hotspot iirc so the demonic forces don’t necessarily gather at places of purely human import, is how I read that

also Cow_Art seems like a necessary addition to the ilx David Lynch crew, welcome!

Tbrr I have trouble with the idea of seeing part 8 as a reason to be more literal and less metaphorical/psychological

There's a mismatch between the magnitude of Bob's evil and the relatively pedestrian crimes he commits.

I disagree - there's something very humane in equating the intimate pain Bob inflicts with the magnitude of an atom bomb.

But then I see all of twin peaks as being fundamentally about the subjective experience of trauma. What Leland did to Laura corrupts the whole world

xp yes

yeah, I think that's generally the more enjoyable way to watch the show wins. But the whole season does invite you to scale up, showing that action on screen has global consequences/may even be reshaping reality as we know it, far outside of Twin Peaks. That's partially why I hate most of the Judy internet theories. There was something about the relatively confined nature of the original series/FWWM that made the story more potent. Bob as a disruptive force in the lives of a family/town is really fascinating and tragic. Bob as a global threat less so.

there's something very humane in equating the intimate pain Bob inflicts with the magnitude of an atom bomb.

yeah definitely

I like the image of the towns they built in the Nevada and New Mexico deserts and then destroyed with nuclear testing. That historical resonance kinda underlies the metaphor for me.

I see all of twin peaks as being fundamentally about the subjective experience of trauma

This is a great prism for the whole show for sure. Something that was there from the first episode. The depiction of grief, especially Sarah Palmer's, was unflinching. So much of that first season was people crying and screaming in anguish.

I didn't bother digging into theories post-series (nothing against them necessarily, just wanted to let it percolate) but the Judy concept, whatever it is, presented itself as cosmic in 17 but distilled down to a bad vibe at the Palmer household by the end of 18. It also seems to be connected to Sarah to some degree, playing off her awareness/complicity as depicted in fwwm and hinted at in the original series.

The idea of domestic trauma bleeding out and infecting "objective" reality is p much how I instinctively read lynch

yesssss got my set today

*shakes fist*

grrr

I went to Best Buy today and they had a copy, but for $12 more than Amazon. The cheapskate in me beat the 'now now now' in me.

for some reason I didn’t think about running out to buy it and had to look at the clock to see if BB was closed

*shakes fist*

look at it this way, you pay 50-60 bucks, I paid 60-70 hours!

This may be a dumb question, but I haven’t bought a DVD in years: Does the box set come with a digital version of the series? Not sure if that’s standard or not now

it's not dumb. i have zero desire to own these discs myself.

I still hate Wally Brando.

I wish the ability to watch the entire series in non-streaming quality, since it's sometimes garbage, on demand. But also don't want to own more discs

we're in such a transitionary phase, apt for the series, and maybe somehow we can get it on rental vhs or a bad fifth-gen vhs dubbed copy

We've been watching everything Lynch in chronological order since The Return started up. We just finished Mulholland Drive, next up is Dumbland and Rabbits. We're going to finish up by rewatching season 3 and all of the bonus biz. I'm sort of nervous about the empty feeling I'll have when it's all done!

Most excited about all of the weirdo short films that came out after Inland Empire. I know nothing about them so there should be a lot of good surprises.

Best Buy online has it for $47 and free shipping. Erm, I'm not affiliated with BB btw. After I griped at Amazon they gave me a free month of Prime.

I've rewatched parts 1 & 2 on blu-ray and sequences in the woods, the red room, & New York look so, so much better without the digital noise of streaming. Can't wait to get to part 8.