Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

Steve Wyard thought he knew what sexual harassment looked like: a put-out-or-lose-your-job overture. Now he's not so sure.
"Have we gotten to the point now where men can't say, 'That's a nice dress' or 'Did you do something with your hair?'" says the veteran sales associate for a Los Angeles company. "The potential problem is you can't even feel safe saying, 'Good morning' anymore."

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

1) many men are fucking stupid
2) a meaningful minority of men are criminal assholes

lots of category 1 men are suddenly wondering if they are category 2 men because see description of category 1

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a13978884/charlie-rose-sexual-harassment-accuser-story/

In 1997, I joined the production team of Charlie Rose’s popular interview show. I was the only black journalist on staff. At the time, there was little to no recognition of what it meant to be black and female in a workplace dominated by white men. Twenty years later, in this watershed moment of examination and reckoning as one powerful white man after another is disgraced following allegations of sexual misconduct ranging from harassment to assault, we’re still not talking about the ramifications for black women—or the broader connection to structural racism in America.

xpost See also: acknowledging other religions' holidays as a threat to Christianity, people eventually marrying horses because we allow gay marriages to happen, other overly-sensitive overreactions to (not entirely inaccurately) perceived attacks on a status quo that was working just fine for some people before a bunch of killjoys had to go and assert their personhood.

I dunno. Sure there's racism aplenty and more than enough to occupy us for uncounted decades ahead. But can you just let the groped women have their moment? kthxbye.

If you don’t how to hug or compliment people without being creepy then I see an amazing market opportunity in the immediate future for people who can, and as sad as that may be, I’m OK with it

Can definitely see my way to $300/hour consultant fees on how to show affection without being a slime - except A BAZILLION PERCENT OF CHILL DUDES ALREADY KNOW THIS and we made bad jokes about it for years whenever stories made the rounds, which is another aspect of feeling complicit, I think.

xxp you are the living embodiment of the smug white-dude mentality that needs to be burned to the fucking ground

sure, sleeve, I’m OK with that but which of us graybeards did you mean

if it makes sleeve feel any better, he can pretend I am typing from the grave.

To explain, I’m conflating the “am I allowed to hug?” piece that Omar little posted above, with this other fucked up piece that forks posted on the Elf Shelf thread (https://www.thecut.com/2017/08/cognition-builders-family-intervention-parenting-help-adhd.html)

This is all phenomenally stupid and sad to me. There are boundaries, morals, and/or basic manners we are supposed to teach each other and abide by. Several if not most of us will test those in our adolescence, but be corrected by peers, not consulting firms.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-pierce-the-secrecy-around-sexual-harassment-cases/

we made bad jokes about it for years whenever stories made the rounds, which is another aspect of feeling complicit, I think.
what does this mean?
you made bad jokes about how you were a chill dude but those other guys were gross and you made self-aggrandizing jokes at their expense behind their backs?

'Did you do something with your hair?'"
one of the most chillingly off moments i have ever had with one of my friends' (ex) partners was when her ex-husband, who i was trying to give the benefit of the doubt (i had doubts) greeted me upon entering their apt by saying "did you do something with your hair?" and i had absolutely NOT done anything with my hair. first. i hadn't cut it in 8 months. I wore it up and off my face every day and every other time he had seen me. it was the same color. he hadn't known me long enough or well enough to have seen me with any other hair than this one. the cluelessness combined with the stock phrase nature of "did you do something with your hair?" made him seem like a total psychopath. at the time i didn't know how to react because what he had said was so superficially innocuous but to this day i remain extremely dubious of any man who says this to anyone.

There are boundaries, morals, and/or basic manners we are supposed to teach each other and abide by.
these are not universal and they do need to be taught by someone -- no one has this clear responsibility, i think i learned in school? i went to all-girls school grades 1-7 though.

Several if not most of us will test those in our adolescence, but be corrected by peers
imagine if you were the person they were tested on and the violation was never corrected by peers...

Masterson has finally been 86'd.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/danny-masterson-netflix-ousted_us_5a2698a0e4b086e4e50461b1?k3f

that took way too much effort

you made bad jokes about how you were a chill dude but those other guys were gross and you made self-aggrandizing jokes at their expense behind their backs?

yes, just talking shit instead of doing anything. abdication of the responsibilities alluded to about establishing and reinforcing norms when it comes to manners, privacy, and people’s bodies belonging to the people who live in them.

imagine if you were the person they were tested on and the violation was never corrected by peers

yup

i guess for me it's shocking to hear someone admit this but i see it as ultimately a positive development. i have a very small handful of experiences in which i remember any correction, but i do remember them, albeit not as viscerally as the experiences in which there was not.

I dunno. Sure there's racism aplenty and more than enough to occupy us for uncounted decades ahead. But can you just let the groped women have their moment? kthxbye.

what the actual fuck

i have definitely been cowardly in my life about confronting men around me when they say something I find abominable.

the legacy of learned behaviors from grade school around being a short weak only child and avoiding getting my ass kicked i guess

i'm obviously still scared and I realize that's a problem

crossposting from the Dustin Hoffman thread

Hoffman accused Oliver of “putting me on display” and said he felt blindsided because neither Oliver nor Tribeca organizers had told him the moderator would raise the subject.

Several times, however, Oliver in fact sought to move on and talk about the film, but Hoffman returned to the subject of harassment, growing testy as he said Oliver was not keeping an “open mind” while unquestionably believing accusers.

“Do you believe this stuff you read?” Hoffman asked.

“Yes,” Oliver replied. “Because there’s no point in [an accuser] lying.”

“Well, there’s a point in her not bringing it up for 40 years,” Hoffman said.

“Oh Dustin,” Oliver said disapprovingly, putting his head in his hand.

http://deadline.com/2017/12/dustin-hoffman-spars-with-john-oliver-over-harassment-claims-i-find-it-very-upsetting-that-you-dont-see-the-humanity-1202220185/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/04/john-oliver-grills-dustin-hoffman-over-sexual-harassment-allegation/?utm_term=.703289304f8f

whoa

John Oliver should be fucking guillotined

Hoffman shot back, “You weren’t there.” Oliver responded, “I’m glad,” drawing gasps from the well-heeled audience, many of whom had paid hefty ticket prices. Heightening the spectacle was the fact it was occurring in the Y’s wood-paneled Kaufmann Concert Hall, an august Upper East Side venue that had last seen an uproar like this when John Ashbery dared to read a poem in free verse.

lmao yes, I bet that's exactly how it played out at the venue that's hosting Judd Apatow next week

Reading the whole WaPo account made me irl cringe

I saw Jerry Lewis in that room (a lotta mob guys in attendance)

JOHN OLIVER EVISCERATES UPPER EAST SIDE SOCIALITES CRAVING WRY HOFFMAN ANECDOTES OF PLAYING WILLY LOMAN ON BROADWAY IN 1984

“Have you seen Tootsie?” he asked Oliver at one point. When Oliver insisted that he had and that he enjoyed Hoffman’s performance in it, Hoffman told a detailed story about staying in makeup and costume as Dorothy, the film’s title character, after shooting had ended one night and experiencing misogyny first-hand. “How could I have made that movie if I didn’t have incredible respect for women?” he asked. “It’s shocking to me that you don’t see me more clearly.”

okay lol

xps just wanna say bout damn time on Danny Masterson, his shit's been reported on for years

I Am Curious (Tootsie)!

also I chuckled reading about Oliver's "I'm glad"

John Oliver should be fucking guillotined

― sleepingbag, Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:48 AM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Is this an overall statement, or just about the exchange in particular...?

John Oliver is basically exhibit A in the smug liberal social media bubble that got Trump elected, don't @ me

people love to say that shit but if the argument here is that criticizing Trump got him elected then idk where to start

wonder if this story from yesterday kinda spurred on the firing:

One of actor Danny Masterson’s alleged sexual assault victims says a Netflix executive told her this weekend that higher-ups at the company don’t believe the four women who have accused Masterson of rape.

Netflix confirmed in a statement that Andy Yeatman, its director of global kids content, made those “careless” and “uninformed” comments, but noted that he was not initially aware that the woman he was speaking to had accused Masterson of rape.

Yeatman spoke with the woman, whom HuffPost is referring to as Victim B, on the sidelines of a kids’ soccer game in Los Angeles. Yeatman is the head coach of a soccer team for 8- and 9-year-old girls. Victim B’s husband is the head coach of the team that played against Yeatman’s on Sunday. Their respective daughters play on the teams that their fathers coach.

When Victim B approached Yeatman and asked him if he worked at Netflix, she says he answered in the affirmative.

Victim B said she asked Yeatman why Netflix was not taking action against Masterson in light of the district attorney’s investigation and the multiple accusations of rape. According to Victim B and another witness, Yeatman said Netflix takes sexual misconduct allegations seriously but that “we don’t believe them,” referring to Masterson’s four accusers.

Victim B told HuffPost she never expected Yeatman to say such a thing and was left stunned. She said she then told him, “I’m one of them,” indicating she was one of Masterson’s accusers.

The conversation ended quickly.

Victim B said Yeatman approached her at the game about an hour later, ostensibly to clear the air, and told her that he’d had no idea she was one of Masterson’s alleged victims.

Victim B told HuffPost that she began to cry and told Yeatman, “I hope no one ever says that to your daughter.”

Yeatman then told her that he can’t decide whether Netflix takes action against Masterson.

Victim B told Yeatman that she and the other women accusing Masterson of rape were telling the truth and that “Netflix is going to regret this, this is a mistake, they’re going to see.”

Victim B said, and the witness confirmed, that Yeatman said, in what they described as a condescending tone, “we’ll see.”

A Netflix spokesman denied that Yeatman said “we’ll see.”

But the company confirmed in a statement that Yeatman told Victim B that Netflix executives didn’t believe the four women accusing Masterson of rape.

“While he was coaching a youth soccer match today, Mr. Yeatman ― a Netflix kids’ programming executive ― was approached by a stranger who did not identify herself or explain her connection to Danny Masterson,” the statement read. “Mr. Yeatman’s comments were careless, uninformed and do not represent the views of the company. Further, he would have no insights into decision making on The Ranch. We are aware of the allegations against Danny Masterson and we are following the current investigation, and will respond if developments occur.”

John Oliver is basically exhibit A in the smug liberal social media bubble that got Trump elected, don't @ me

― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten),

http://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tootsie.jpg

people love to say that shit but if the argument here is

got him elected then idk where to start

― frogbs, Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:33 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, pissing off liberal straw(wo)men and ‘how dare a black man be president of me’ were in a dead heat of responsibility for this shitshow. Blaming individual liberals is a fool’s errand.

I don't think that being the excuse people use to weaponize their racism/sexism absolves people of said racism/sexism or presupposes that said racism/sexism wouldn't have been expressed anyway.

yes it was "Drumpf" that inspired all those people to pull the lever for the man promising to do away with immigrants

Polling suggests Oliver's glasses swung 10,000 votes in Michigan alone

imagine if Hillary had had Dorothy Michaels as a campaign manager!

Although it is very true that the majority of woke white guys I know are casting around desperately for scapegoats they can hold up so they don't have to cosign the argument "maybe a lot of white people in this country are racist/sexist to the point where it is worth it to harm themselves if they can take down their perceived enemies with them"

I disagree with frogbs, but derailing this thread is nagl, so let's get back on thread

I don't think there are any other threads to talk about Hillary on this board tho

"Sure there's a lot of racism/sexism in this country but maybe someone did something so snarky that the only reasonable response for some people was to close the borders and give all our money to the wealthy; have you considered that?"