US Politics November 2017

he called for an ethics investigation in his own (second) statement, so i assume everyone will be onboard

from same WaPo story:

The outcome of a 2018 special election isn’t entirely certain, but, unlike neighboring states, Democrats in Minnesota weathered the Trump surge last year to hand its electoral votes to Hillary Clinton by a narrow margin. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Franken’s peer, is also on the ballot; her seat is rated by the Cook Political Report as “solid Democratic.” An off-year election might normally be disadvantageous to the Democrats, but 2018 is shaping up to be a strong year for the party nationally because of the deep unpopularity of the president.

seems to me that the main issue is what the social standard for handling these kinds of accusations is, because it's clearly shifting (which is good!) but to what exactly isn't clear. Is anyone who is accused of anything automatically disqualified from serving in public office, or being employed? Is there no punishment/rehabilitation/other course of action short of being banned from public life as a pariah that is acceptable? I'm not trying to be facetious or combative here, I expect there's a range of opinions about this.

I do think this larger question has some political implications because as noted upthread one side is going to be more inclined to weaponize this in unsavory ways than the other - the GOP realizing they can destroy opponents simply by making accusations (absent any legal proceeding/burden of proof beyond "always believe the victim"), it is going to get real ugly real quick. Uglier than things are now, even. They will see this as a weakness on the left that they can exploit for gain. To be clear, I am not saying that is what's going on in this particular case with Franken, I have no reason to doubt Leeann's statement and the photo is incontrovertible evidence, but you have to imagine the wheels turning in McConnell et al's heads.

xxp

he called for an ethics investigation in his own (second) statement, so i assume everyone will be onboard

yes. duh.

He's calling Leeann Tweeden a liar

Not sure how an "investigation" will address that

the "i don't remember it the same way" bit comes from the usual playbook despite the apologetic tone.

the right-wing already has absorbed the logic that accusers are all liars doing it for attention/political gain - it's not a far jump from there to doing it themselves. and certainly the alt-right has gone full-bore in turning the left's ideals/precepts about things like free speech against the left. Not to mention the right-wing echo chamber's pension for totally fake conspiracy theories like pizzagate. It seems kind of inevitable.

xp

acknowledging differences in memory /= "liar" accusations. People's memories diverge all the time, about everything...? how is that even debatable.

just bcz the tactic is used by liars doesn't always mean those words are a lie.

However, I am predisposed to think ill of Franken. (He's a Clintonite, after all.)

read the room shakey

(not saying i agree or disagree — just don’t think this is a discussion people want to have right now)

in other news, Menendez officially gets a mistrial verdict

it would be so cool to be a nihilist republican

― j., Thursday, November 16, 2017 12:57 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You would be nihilistic about stuff about sexual harassment, but you would care an inordinate amount about people saying "Happy Holidays," instead of "Merry Christmas."

So there trade-offs.

N. Carolina Trump voters have buyer's remorse: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/The-Daily-202-Trump-voters-have-buyer-s-remorse-12362051.php

Reading the article I wonder, not for the first time, why Americans haven't erected a guillotine in 250 years.

there was a diy scaled-down trebuchet trend a few years ago, bet we could exploit that impulse

Pierce:

Way back when Barney Frank was in Congress, and he got involved with a male prostitute named Steve Gobie, The Boston Globe went into full Hibernian Sex Panic, demanding that Frank resign of the grounds of "Oooh, Icky!" Appearing on Nightline, George Will, of all people, took the Let The People Decide position.

If the voters of Alabama want to be represented by the Don Juan of Cinnabon, that’s their choice and nobody else’s. When Al Franken stands for re-election, the voters of Minnesota deserve the chance to weigh his qualifications in the light of this episode. Anything else is substituting moral theater for political reality.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13787318/al-franken-groping/

Hibernian Sex Panic is a good band name

Reading the article I wonder, not for the first time, why Americans haven't erected a guillotine in 250 years.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:38 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we'll see what happens if the GOP manages to pass these tax cuts...

Reading the article I wonder, not for the first time, why Americans haven't erected a guillotine in 250 years.

For a second I thought this said "ELECTED a guillotine" and was like

https://community.gophersvids.com/uploads/monthly_2016_10/58126c58f2bc5_InRodWeTrust.jpg.25963e19f97f897188d5ca648ae9897a.jpg

What do you think his "differing" memory of that could possibly be Shakey? That she was into it? That he didn't have to beg? That it was a kiss on the cheek? He didn't apologise AT ALL for it, so he's implicitly contending that Tweeden is way off - off enough that it's more than a just slight difference of interpretation, i.e. she's lying. It's completely disgusting

"Hey ex-Playmate, I wrote a scene for you!! Well, for us. Your 'character' kisses my 'character'"

fuck outta here

guillotine/guillotine 2018
guillotine/guillotine 2020

He didn't apologise AT ALL for it

huh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOxXwUJW0AAhcD6.jpg:large

Charles Pierce piece is p otm, I think

So ... she's a conservative commentator and personal friend of Hannity who apparently ran the story by Roger Stone before going forward? Anyway, Franken apologized (right?), she accepted his apology (right?), and she hasn't asked for an investigation (right?) but Franken has. Is that where it's at?

I think so, yes

In other news--

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/trump-rally-house-republicans-tax-vote-244965

House Republicans passed a $5.5 trillion tax bill

The bill passed 227-205, with 13 Republicans breaking with leadership to vote against the legislation. Not a single Democrat backed the bill

well idk if she "accepted" his apology, I kinda doubt it

xp

I literally heard her say she accepted it during a press conference an hour ago.

She was still irked that he hadn't apologized years ago, but she accepted it.

I bet a lot of people who aren't old enough don't know that Barney Frank was uncloseted by a prostitute. Seems nearly innocent in today's environment.

What do you think his "differing" memory of that could possibly be Shakey?

Probably that the kiss meant anything other than an overdone physical bit, if I were to guess.

pierce somewhat otm. i do think there are certain ethical standards for public servants that should be upheld, and that is what the ethics committee will investigate. this incident occurred when franken was not a senator, which will probably matter (whether it should is a fair point for debate)

Presumably he was already mulling running for office? Think ahead a little before you recreate your Lampoon hijinks?

xpost I misread that as Frank uncloseted *as* a prostitute, and I thought, huh, I did not know that.

so wait is there any reason beyond party affiliation of the governor (an admittedly consequential reason) that we're not calling on Menedez to resign

— slackbot (@pareene) November 16, 2017

I'm sure Gov. Christie would appoint a non-corrupt Republican

so he can resign in January

at which point some other corrupt Democrat can be appointed

oh hey look

Al Franken admits guilt after photographic evidence of his abuse surfaces.

Mitch: "Let's investigate."

In Alabama, ZERO evidence, allegations 100% rejected.

Mitch: "Moore must quit immediately or be expelled."

— Judge Roy Moore (@MooreSenate) November 16, 2017

yeah well with franken it was one adult woman and you have been creeping on dozens of children for years, roy

'Don Juan of the Cinnabon' got me

more Poppy

First on CNN: New George H.W. Bush accuser says he groped her during 1992 re-election campaignhttps://t.co/HL2M9wgwYQ

— Ram Ramgopal (@RamCNN) November 16, 2017

Shakey he apologised for the photo, which was juvenile and disrespectful. But not the unwanted tongue kiss, which is borderline assault, and about which he is calling her a liar. Unless there's something I'm missing in that screenshot you posted?

where's his left hand

btw

BREAKING: FCC votes to eliminate media ownership rules, paving way for one company to own multiple TV stations or both TV station/newspaper in one market

— Jeremy B. White (@JeremyBWhite) November 16, 2017

truly a champion of the common man

Shakey he apologised for the photo,

the opening paragraph of that 2nd statement reads like a blanket apology for the entire thing to me, idk how you could read it any other way.